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[hops]

It would make sense that the key to actually finding the rift is having a Rogue.

[Loud Whispers]

It would make sense that the key to actually finding the rift is having a Rogue.

Of course he would make a 5 dimensional dungeon, rogues not even once

[Akura]

I realized the other day, there was an Evil Rogue in the comic: Nale*. Granted, probably not a good... effective Rogue, but he still had levels in that class.

Might be a good thing he died at the other Gate.

[Rolan7]

Might be a good thing he died at the other Gate.

Oh, for sure - his death advanced Sabine's character development!  I'm looking forward to how her seemingly genuine rage and sorrow over his death is followed up on.

Edit:  It's just kinda weird - she's literally a demon, not even a devil.  But even outsiders aren't purely defined by their alignment (just... almost purely).  There is that succubus paladin in official material who showed up both on Detect Good and Detect Evil or whatnot.

[scriver]

Falls-From-Grace agrees

[ChairmanPoo]

Fall from Grace was in theory Lawful Neutral. Though in practice she behaved like a genuinely good person.

[Akura]

I was thinking about something else. You know how, of the Southern Gods, the Rat is aware of The Dark One being a new color quiddity and Redcloak is the only (known) cleric of TDO that is powerful enough to channel his power into sealing the Rifts?

Going back to the battle of Azure City, Soon Kim and his group of Paladin Deathless very nearly kills both Xykon and Redcloak. This would have prevented Team Evil from threatening the gods with releasing the Snarl into their planes. But it would also have prevented Rat, Tiamat, and Thor&Loki from getting The Dark One's help in creating a nearly permanent seal on the Rifts. And what stopped that from happening? A series of events, highly unlikely individually and almost certainly providence taken together.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Miko was right about herself all along. She WAS being guided by the Gods. Well, one of them anyway.

Also, the Rat was willing to sacrifice his Gate, and pantheon's main city, in order to secure a more permanent victory against the much larger threat of the Snarl. The Rat being stated to be furious after Azure City's fall is probably because such a sacrifice being necessary to begin with. He probably felt betrayed by the god he tried to defend.

[hops]

But I mean, as of right now Redcloak dying might actually be better for the Dark One in the long run than him being around...

[Rolan7]

I like the theory about Rat.  Miko's story doesn't *demand* it, but it would fit very well.

And yeah, the Dark One definitely stands to benefit here.  Redcloak's semi-justified xenophobia is standing in the way.  I wonder if tDO may become aware of the deal through Redcloak being his high priest, or if Redcloak can keep that information from his god.

Ur-priest Redcloak when? (pretty obscure 3.5 stuff so probably unlikely, but I'd love it).  The very short description would be "A cleric who steals divine magic from deities and other spellcasters". 

(I've always held the idea that a Cleric's level represents their power to channel power like any other spellcaster, not just the favor of their deity.  So why couldn't a powerful Cleric "shop around", or even leech divine spells via deception (the ur-priest prestige class.))

[Loud Whispers]

So if Miko was being played for a pawn who was playing her? I would guess Hel or Loki but I've lost the plot of OOTS multiple times in between updates

[Mathel]

I like the theory about Rat.  Miko's story doesn't *demand* it, but it would fit very well.

And yeah, the Dark One definitely stands to benefit here.  Redcloak's semi-justified xenophobia is standing in the way.  I wonder if tDO may become aware of the deal through Redcloak being his high priest, or if Redcloak can keep that information from his god.

Ur-priest Redcloak when? (pretty obscure 3.5 stuff so probably unlikely, but I'd love it).  The very short description would be "A cleric who steals divine magic from deities and other spellcasters". 

(I've always held the idea that a Cleric's level represents their power to channel power like any other spellcaster, not just the favor of their deity.  So why couldn't a powerful Cleric "shop around", or even leech divine spells via deception (the ur-priest prestige class.))

I have another idea though. If Redcloak's actions go against both goblinkind and tDO, tDO may excommunicate him and pick another high priest.

I also think that clerical level is their power, rather than their direct standing with their god. Otherwise it would not make sense, that a gods Chosen One can be on level 1.

[Kagus]

Clerical level is just an indication of how much paperwork they've sorted out and filed.

[Egan_BW]

I'd kind of find interesting a system where different classes/jobs get xp/level up by doing different things. Fighters level by fighting things, Clerics level by pleasing their god, Wizards level by finding knowledge and performing experiments and such.

It would be impossible to balance and would fuel division in the party, but... it'd be cool? :v

[scriver]

Bards though

[ChairmanPoo]

TBH I find the idea of clerics as independent power-channelers more appealing. Like in PoE, where the power came from their belief in some principle which might match a deity´s(with potentially odd situations like Durance who was in *very* bad terms with his deity yet was fairly mighty as a priest due to his dedication to his principles). Alternatively, make clerics god-dependent but not fully free-willed, their actions and their outcomes influenceable by whoever they´re channeling. Thus, even a cleric that abandons the principles of his church will have power because some other entity will be willing to charge his batteries (and in exchange, influence events through the cleric)