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Author Topic: Basic training - does it even work?  (Read 927 times)

Sirbug

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Basic training - does it even work?
« on: July 09, 2013, 10:36:02 am »

I like to have large military training 24/7. And, well, my endless recruits don't seem to learn much. Is it possible that I do something wrong? How long does it take to turn recruit into at least novice?
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greycat

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 10:55:24 am »

Totally depends on how you're doing it.

The fastest ways are using a danger room or beating up disarmed goblins.

If you're sticking with barracks training, then there are still several different approaches.  If the recruits do not have a Training order, they can only do Individual weapon drills, which will give them a small amount of weapon experience.  If they do have Training orders, and if enough squadmates drag their beards to the barracks to participate, then they can either Spar with each other, or do Demonstrations.  Sparring is generally better (gives more experience per unit of time).  Demonstrations give experienced based on the Teaching skill of the one who's demonstrating, and the Student skill of the one who's watching.

If your recruits all have no weapon skill, no Teacher skill, and no Student skill, then Demonstrations are going to go quite slowly.
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VerdantSF

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 11:17:03 am »

I use small squads instead of danger rooms.  It doesn't work as quickly, but I like the idea of recruits training their way to legendary via sparring.  The recruit squads have 3 soldiers with 2 minimum for training.  That way, 1 soldier gets a break while the other 2 spar.  This has served me quite well.  My current fortress is 74 years old and while I've lost some soldiers over the years, invaders have lost a lot more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By the time you get legendary teachers, you don't have to worry about the size of the recruit squads, as leveling really speeds up.

Matoro

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 12:21:40 pm »

Are you dwarves doing individual combat drills, weapon demonstrations or actually sparring?
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Werdna

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 02:56:10 pm »

Is it possible that I do something wrong?

Check that each squad has been added to the 'Active' section in the military 'alerts' screen.  By default, a new squad starts in Inactive, which has a terrible training rate.
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kingubu

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 01:52:25 am »

I give xbows to dwarfs with no military skill.  Much easier to train those.
Well, to be honest, I give xbows to almost everyone.  It's the Zapp Brannigan school of defense.
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Larix

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 05:51:59 am »

I'm assuming the basics of getting them to train have been done right, to wit:
- build a barracks and set it for the squad(s) in question to 't'rain
- make sure the military schedule for them has training assigned
- set the squad to 'active' from the 's'quad or 'm'ilitary screen

Recruits with no military skills at all will start out doing individual training to grasp the basics. If they're in a squad, they will then try to teach each other what they've learnt via demonstrations. If they've reached sufficient skill in something that allows active practice - e.g. combat skill with a melee weapon - they _may_ spar, gaining skill much more quickly and training their attributes. If you're starting with a squad full of raw recruits, you'll have to wait between a half and a full year before seeing your first sparring match. Currently, dwarfs love demonstrations _much_ too much, to the point that larger squads can completely block themselves from decent skill gains by starting and stopping demonstrations over and over, with minimal or no actual experience granted in the process. Keeping the squads small during the training process helps quite a bit, by making the skill gain only painfully, not insanity-inducingly slow (it can be as slow as one skill level per year in the 'main' skill like hammerdwarf, sometimes less).

As has been said, good 'drill instructors' (i.e. dwarfs who have both a decent 'teacher' skill _and_ decent ratings in skills worth teaching to the military) speed up the process a fair bit, but like with all skill advancements, getting a dwarf to high skills by regular training takes some time. I got recruits from nothing to elite in about two years by pairing a single recruit with a single legendary militarydwarf, but with better teachers and better planning, faster advancement in slightly larger training squads should still be possible.

Crossbows for the masses are still a good idea - this way, they'll at least go down fighting instead of running around like headless chickens when Goblin Claus comes down the chimney. Just put them all in inactive squads with little issued gear apart from the crossbow and a few archery targets to shoot at, most of them will be rated as 'skilled' or better, which helps their precision and reload times. Dedicated archery squads can be quite effective, but should be put in _active_ training. This gets them from nothing to elite in a bit over one year. All you need is a barracks, an archery target and lots and lots of bolts. Putting them into a hammerdwarf class after that would still be helpful, to improve their survivability by teaching them dodging and shield use.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 11:21:33 am »

If you're starting with a squad full of raw recruits, you'll have to wait between a half and a full year before seeing your first sparring match.
If you start with a smaller squad, you get sparring much quicker. Three is a good number, as there are still two dwarves left to spar when one is eating, sleeping, or refilling their waterskin.
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Sirbug

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 11:39:31 am »

If you're starting with a squad full of raw recruits, you'll have to wait between a half and a full year before seeing your first sparring match.
If you start with a smaller squad, you get sparring much quicker. Three is a good number, as there are still two dwarves left to spar when one is eating, sleeping, or refilling their waterskin.
So, I better get three dwarf squad, create new one, recruit three there, etc?
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0cu

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 01:54:57 am »

There's another option:

You can order a squad multiple train commands. You can order a squad to spar in 5 groups of 2.
But I am not able to get the menu listings together now.
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VerdantSF

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 02:15:52 am »

You can order a squad multiple train commands. You can order a squad to spar in 5 groups of 2.
But I am not able to get the menu listings together now.

While in theory it sounds like it should be the same, in actual practice, separate squads are still better.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113918.msg3480810

0cu

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Re: Basic training - does it even work?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 02:28:59 am »

Thanks for clearing that up. For my latest fortress, I've moved on to "live training" anyway.  :P
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