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Author Topic: Getting Merchants to use bridges  (Read 1458 times)

Thuellai

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Getting Merchants to use bridges
« on: July 06, 2013, 09:27:59 am »

So I built a nice walled-off bridge to the map-edge that leads right to my depot, while my dwarves have a little exit hatch in case they need to go outside for something (for example, to murder a siege that's interrupting my trade)  Checked the route, the depot is definitely accessible via that bridge.  Despite this, merchants insist on entering from random points, and frequently will insist that there's simply NO WAY their wagons can get to my horrible unavailable depot.

What's the deal
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Mentalpatient87

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 09:48:51 am »

It has to be about 5 tiles wide for carts, I think. That gives three tiles of accessible path. Same for the map edges. Gotta make sure there's room to get on the bridge.
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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow dwarf is either a fool or a coward. Whoever can not take care of themself without that law is both. For a wounded dwarf shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.

Sirbug

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 09:56:22 am »

caravans cross three-tiles-wide bridges with ease, though I never built bridges to edges of the map.
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Mentalpatient87

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 10:13:16 am »

Yeah, but if it's a walled-in bridge, basically a road/cattle chute, don't the walls block off the tiles next to them?
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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow dwarf is either a fool or a coward. Whoever can not take care of themself without that law is both. For a wounded dwarf shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.

Sirbug

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 10:16:26 am »

They don't. That deport accessibility calculator shows path for middle of the wagon. You only need three-tile wide tunnel.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

lazygun

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 10:38:52 am »

Sometimes, I've seem merchants insist on arriving on a particular map edge. Possibly related to a river I had splitting the map into east and west halves. But anyway, they complained until I constructed an extra bridge so the wagons could arrive on the east side, cross the bridge to the west side, then cross the river again using my intended drawbridge and gatehouse.
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fricy

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 11:14:12 am »

Hmmm, I suppose there's a one tile gap between the edge of the map and your trade-depo bridge where you can't build a wall. If I'm right, it may be that the game checks the path of the merchants, they have free access from anywhere, then it checks the wagons, sees that there's a 3 wide path, but it does not restrict the spawn point to the bridge. So the wagons spawn where only the merchants have access, they can to path to your depo through that access hatch, but the wagons can't access it, because they would path through that one tile gap. Try blocking that with a raising bridge, and see if it helps.
If it doesn't than you have to block the whole map and leave only that bridge open to the outside....

Kumis

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 01:03:18 pm »

When it comes to blocking off the edge of the map may I suggest a ditch?
It's far, far quicker.

Ever since my Time Team binge a month or two ago I've been obsessed with ditches. They're brilliant early-stage defence, great for directing pathing and authentic for the middle-ages roleplayers amongst us!

God, I love me some ditches.
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Philotes

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 03:58:43 pm »

3 tile wide bridge is enough, even if next to walls.

Sometimes quite often trees can block the path of the caravans, building a road helps (b-o or b-O for a dirt road).

also, traps may block the path of a caravan.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 04:05:01 pm by Philotes »
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Drazinononda

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 04:33:01 pm »

Are there trees in the way? Any boulders (not mined, but terrain feature) on the path? Traps? Is the hatch in the roadway?

Also, if you Shift+D to see the accessibility, the green "Accessible" portion is counted outward from the depot, so it's useful for finding where the obstacle lies. Start at the depot and follow the green until it stops, and see what's around there. If you post a screenshot of the path and the accessibility map for it, we could probably tell you at a glance what's causing your trouble.
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Thuellai

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 05:00:11 pm »

Are there trees in the way? Any boulders (not mined, but terrain feature) on the path? Traps? Is the hatch in the roadway?

Also, if you Shift+D to see the accessibility, the green "Accessible" portion is counted outward from the depot, so it's useful for finding where the obstacle lies. Start at the depot and follow the green until it stops, and see what's around there. If you post a screenshot of the path and the accessibility map for it, we could probably tell you at a glance what's causing your trouble.

It's accessible, nice green path to the edge of the bridge.

I think tricy is right - there's a small gap where I couldn't wall off because it was too close to the edge, so I think I may have to create some impromptu walls there using bridges and see if that forces spawning inside the tunnel.
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When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

Sutremaine

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 05:19:05 pm »

Does your map have a river on it? Wagon access is decided for eternity at the moment you embark. If you have a river running north to south and you start on the western side, you'll only get traders from that western side. They can leave via the eastern side (or even the caverns), but the wagons have to come from the west.
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Thuellai

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 05:40:22 pm »

Does your map have a river on it? Wagon access is decided for eternity at the moment you embark. If you have a river running north to south and you start on the western side, you'll only get traders from that western side. They can leave via the eastern side (or even the caverns), but the wagons have to come from the west.

Necroing this because it's useful information for anyone else's nifty little bridge projects - if they have to cross a river, they won't.

Friggin' picky merchants.
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When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

Nyxalinth

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 10:57:30 am »

Does your map have a river on it? Wagon access is decided for eternity at the moment you embark. If you have a river running north to south and you start on the western side, you'll only get traders from that western side. They can leave via the eastern side (or even the caverns), but the wagons have to come from the west.

Necroing this because it's useful information for anyone else's nifty little bridge projects - if they have to cross a river, they won't.

Friggin' picky merchants.

How does this work regarding invaders?  I tend to want to use a river as a natural barrier, but I suspect it won't do.
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jcochran

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Re: Getting Merchants to use bridges
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 12:24:40 pm »

Depends upon the invaders. Some swim, some don't. Also depends upon what kind of water. Brooks, for instance, present no problem for anything whereas a river does block off non-swimmers.
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