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[Kagus]

Supayas. Supaya reanimation. Which got nerfed, so now each H3 undead reanimator only calls 2 (H4 calls 3, if I recall) per turn, or 4 with a 10F 10A national helmet.

The undead H3 units you get are either your prophet or the 850g cap-only royal mallqui. You aren't spamming anything.

[ThtblovesDF]

I did a test game with em and while silly, the idea of going drain 3, never researching, just spamming ethereal undead ghosts with MR 14 (screw your priests) and two buffs of your choice.

... Still not very good tbh though.

[Il Palazzo]

It's 'ethereal', ThtblovesDF, not 'eternal'.

[Kagus]

He could mean "eternal" in the sense of "never doing anything else again" or spawning enough of them that the supaya sea just goes on forever and ever.

[Il Palazzo]

He could mean "eternal" in the sense of "never doing anything else again" or spawning enough of them that the supaya sea just goes on forever and ever.

Pretty much what I was thinking the first few times he said that in our game with me as Therodos. By now it looks like a simple mistake.

[E. Albright]

As someone who lost a 25hp Ermorian mage to an indy archer during 4.28's expansion phase, let me underline that it's definitely ethereal rather than eternal.

"That which is dead believes the ethereal lie. And with stray arrows even death may die..."

[Kagus]

Mmm yes... Stray arrows taking out mages, mundane commanders interpreting "stay behind troops" as "quickly get behind the ENEMY troops", indy shamans pulling out the most ridiculous perfect-accuracy combo of grasping vines on your expansion pretender, having an awe-based SC conquer a province before it immediately spawns an undead invading force that kills them... Good times.

I will say one thing about Nazca though... Having very cheap/conscriptable non-mindless flying units is quite handy for anything regarding fortresses.


Been playing around a bit with some MA Jotunheim ideas...  And damn, you'd have to search a long time to find a more versatile nation.

You're a giant nation (with all the recruitable beef that entails) with a pretty good spread of magic paths, some darn good battle mages (nether darts from the gygja, frost evocations from skratti), a whole selection of thug chassis, communion access, stealthy raiders (with pillage bonuses no less), sacreds that are actually really good and eminently buffable... You can pursue pretty much any kind of strategy and have the tools available to run with it.  Undead swarms can potentially give you some grief due to poor priests, but you've got astral and death access to help out with that.

Hell, the "battle mage" angle can actually be taken a few different ways... You've got some fairly decent evocations at your fingertips for offensive mages, you've got loads of nature for defensive buffing and the size 1 vaetti will gobble up any kind of strength-related buffing and go on a murdering spree with it, and you've got access to communion-boosted astral and death magic for laying down some mean control spells.  Not to mention blood/astral for ruining everything with horrors.

And only just now did I also realize that you could slap a black heart on a jotun scout in case you wanted a 32hp 22str assassin for 15 blood slaves.

[E. Albright]

Undead swarms can potentially give you some grief due to poor priests, but you've got astral and death access to help out with that.

You've also got fairly strong water, which helps clean up this sort of thing.

You sorta allude to Vaetti hags when you mention communion access, but they deserve more highlighting. 40g recruit-in-any-forest stealthy any-type-of-sorcerers are quite nice - if you have magic scales, they can even push through their poor research skills and be okay-ish lab rats while waiting for something nastier to do.

[Kagus]

Yeah, the vaetti hags are amazing. They're blood hunters, communion slaves, reanimators, bookworms and more...  They also make great use of research-boosting artifacts, as they're flat bonuses.

[Frumple]

I did a test game with em and while silly, the idea of going drain 3, never researching, just spamming ethereal undead ghosts with MR 14 (screw your priests) and two buffs of your choice.

... Still not very good tbh though.

Day back, but you might have better luck with this with ghost ermor if you really want to do it. Do the same thing, but go triple-bless and spam their 0-research self-blessing mini wraith lords all over the place. Iirc a W/something or another (I want to say N?) consul can solo most indie provinces right from the start, and a handful bunched together can tear apart quite a number of armies.

[Kagus]

Isn't that pretty much the only semi-viable Lemuria strategy these days? Not necessarily triple bless or whatnot, but spamming consuls?

[Cruxador]

Isn't that pretty much the only semi-viable Lemuria strategy these days? Not necessarily triple bless or whatnot, but spamming consuls?

Nah. Like the orthodox  "stay home, be defensible, and fuck the world with globals" strategy, it lacks a good way to actually claim victory. Unless you're playing a small game and can do it quite quickly, anyway. But once people have forted most thrones, you're gonna have a bad time. Although if you count this kind of thing, you can "win" by making the game so un-fun that everyone else quits.

[Frumple]

Consul spam's important most of the time -- because they are solid thugs, H3 priests, and high command leaders right out the gate -- but if you're not just doing something for the giggles you'd probably want to be doing stuff like taking over water provinces and burying them in reanimators (UW shades are better than land ones, heh, and better or near to it than most of your low H chaff spawn and parts of your national freespawn, too, iirc), and all the normal undead-y junk.

The consuls are easily one of their biggest advantages (probably what I'd call one of the best national summons in the game given they're zero research on top of everything else they can manage, tbh), but ghost ermor still has other things they can leverage. Mostly the cheap/freespawn reanimators that can put out mostly better chaff than skeleton ermor or people ermor (though massing the reanimators is arguably easier with people ermor), but hey, that can go pretty far if you use it right, particularly when ghost ermor has hella' easier access to H3s you don't have much else to do with besides get 'em in fights.

E: Though that does cause the amount of ermors in this game to strike me again. I forget about it occasionally. People ermor, I think splinter people ermor, skeleton ermor, ghost ermor, pretty sure there's a lizard ermor or two, too? Might even be forgetting something. Illwinter likes ermor, apparently.

[sprinkled chariot]

Eternal Ermor of legions, Jesus and priests of ancient faith learning secrets of dark arts from lizardmen to make said eternal Ermor more eternal.

Eternal Ermor, which went a bit too eternal and happily wants to share its eternity with everyone.

Ermor of averege eternity  trying to outeternal too eternal ermor and snek ermor by reasonable necromancy.

Ermor, which tries to figure out, how to stay eternal without necromancy, but with HYDRAS and snaeks.

Even more eternal ermor then all other eternal ermors alltogether, so eternal, that it even got back dudes, who made first mentioned eternal Ermor so eternal with just gladius and pila, and they want to make it great again.

[Cruxador]

I didn't mean to imply that consuls aren't good in their own right. But relying purely on spamming them to the exclusion of research will still see you unable to leverage your advantages, and even using them to the exclusion of ordinary mage support will see you unable to win a pitched battle; there's only so much a thug can do.