Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[etgfrog]

I'm curious, can nationgen put out nations that have population killing dominion or give freespawns?

[E. Albright]

Freespawn would require changing the sourcecode. Well, you might be able to jury-rig it via data files and filters, but it'd be an awful mess. Popkill OTOH would be trivial to add via straightforward changes to the nation filter files.

To actually answer the question I think you meant to ask, though, NationGen as it is release will generate neither of those sorts of nations, and further there's no plans in the foresable future to add them baring some serious changes to available modding commands.

[BFEL]

I'd also point out that in caves, if you have darkvision or blind-fighter units, you have a bit of a tactical advantage in battles there. (Probably not a very large one, though)

Speaking of caves, do they count as surface in relation to certain Globals? Perpetual Storm is the one I'm thinking of specifically.

[EnigmaticHat]

Freespawn would require changing the sourcecode. Well, you might be able to jury-rig it via data files and filters, but it'd be an awful mess. Popkill OTOH would be trivial to add via straightforward changes to the nation filter files.

To actually answer the question I think you meant to ask, though, NationGen as it is release will generate neither of those sorts of nations, and further there's no plans in the foresable future to add them baring some serious changes to available modding commands.

It took about 2 hours of fiddling, but I'm about to blow your mind. Copy Sanguine Circle, then copy-paste this into it:

Code: [Select]

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 1
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#rarity 0
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 1
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 2700
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 2
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 2
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 2700
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 3
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 3
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 2700
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 4
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 2700
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 4
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 5
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 512
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 5
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end


#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 6
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 6
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 512
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 7
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#kill 1
#delay 0
#end

#newevent
#req_fornation 100
#req_fullowner
#req_dominion 7
#notext
#nolog
#nation -2
#1unit 512
#endThen play a game as Hobnia.

Then read this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It actually still doesn't work.  How many freespawns appear seems to be BIASED by what the dominion is, but not completely determined.  I didn't bother to do the math but Domkill also seems to be in around the same place.  So while it WORKS it isn't working as intended and its obviously silly to try to reach any conclusions without understanding why.

My leading theories:
1.  I made a typo somewhere
2.  #delay 0 doesn't work exactly how I think it is, event codes are staying between turns and it isn't starting from the "beginning" of the sequence
3.  Which events will trigger is determined in advance somehow even with #rarity 0
4.  The event modding code just straight up doesn't work properly because no one ever tests it

[E. Albright]

The main issue is automating generation of that, and then it comes down to time investment vs. content payoff. This hasn't been perceived as high demand.

Having said that, NG is a collaborative project, so if anyone is good with Java, likes their code pastaesque (gotta be honest about that ) and wants to pitch in...

[Sean Mirrsen]

I have been cobbling together some ideas for a nation mod, and I've been wondering about how a few things would work and how they could be balanced properly.

The main gimmick of the nation that I'd like to use, is unrestricted communion. That is, every single one of the nation's mages is a communion master, and every mage and commander (basically the same thing) knows a simple intrinsic spell they can cast to enter communion as a slave. This would be all kinds of broken if the nation had regular mages, so I thought of making the nation's mages highly specialized and weak individually - I.e. there would be three types of "mages", and each would have a 100% chance of one level in one of two paths (Nature/Earth, Water/Air, Fire/Astral), plus something like a 10% chance of an additional path level. Outside of heroes, pretenders, and summoned/independent mages, there would be no multi-path mages in the nation.

How would that work for balance, as a pro/con?

Also, I was thinking about the idea of giving the nation specific sacred/special units if specific pretenders are chosen. I.e. if you choose a particular pretender, an event spawns an additional site at your capital allowing you to recruit additional types of units. As a side effect, you wouldn't get that special site unless your pretender was actually in your capital, so this would incentivise having an Awake pretender to get the useful special units early. Would this be possible, and how expensive do you think such a feature would that have to be, point cost-wise?

(Other notes: the nation in question would have no "feet", and does not have arms as such but does have one "grasp" that can use weapons and be justifiably called an "arm", even if it's not. Does that constitute a significant drawback in terms of potential equipment, and would adding a third Misc slot to all of the nation's units be an acceptable compensation if it is?)

[IWishIWereSarah]

Outside of heroes, pretenders, and summoned/independent mages, there would be no multi-path mages in the nation.

I think this would cause your nation to be very difficult to balance.
If it was a EA nation, I would try to rush any nation that could have independent mages; and whatever the age is, rush thrones to get more mages.
The non-nationnal mages would bring too much potential to the nation for it to be easily balanced.

If you still go that way, I would suggest trying to make the Drain scale beneficiary to them (drain-immune mages, and maybe events that give them something, such as boosting the pretender-sites), so that non-nationnal mages are nerfed at least a bit

Also, in the Desura forums, Pymous posted a nation which can't recruit independents (didn't try, but read that), so you may want to try and see if you can prevent commander-recruiting, if you wish so


PS: missing feet means no "earth boots", and if their grasp let them only have 1 "arm" that prevents them from using the skull Staff and the Elemental Staves, preventing them from boosting their magic. This could help you make the nation focus on communion (because the way to get a 2 in a magic isn't to forge, but to bring more mages )

[Neonivek]

I think this would cause your nation to be very difficult to balance.

The main issue is actually construction.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I think this would cause your nation to be very difficult to balance.

The main issue is actually construction.

Construction and rituals, really. They'd have no easy access to multi-path mages, unless they luck in on an indie site or one of their mages sprouts a second path (10% chance of that), or get a throne. And even then the indie mages wouldn't get the full benefit from their national quirk, they'd still need to enter communion manually. And they have no way to easily get an E1S1 mage to craft crystal matrices, either.

It would, I think, be a nation highly dependent on having an awake pretender, just so that there is a high-level caster and crafter that can boost the low-level mages to something worthwhile reliably.

[Frumple]

To be entirely honest, if you've got a neat idea you'd like to implement, I wouldn't worry too much about balance, at least initially. Do your thing first, adjust numbers and whatnot second. There's plenty of mod nations that are still pretty fun to play that are complete shite from a balance perspective, one way or another, and that's perfectly okay, heh.

[IWishIWereSarah]

Oh, by the way, can you mod in items restricted to your race ?
I think there are ways to make boosters that don't act as boosters in combat (with negative in-combat boosters). It may be over-complex for nothing, but it could help somehow

[Neonivek]

I mean I guess it could work if that nation gets a really great unique rainbow pretender.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I mean I guess it could work if that nation gets a really great unique rainbow pretender.

...have you guessed what the nation is? D:

Because they will. It will have a point in all magic paths, be flying and stealthy, and will cause unrest and slowly drive your troops insane. It will cost so many points that the only viable option of having it in play will be to start with it imprisoned. It will also be one of the few unique pretenders that won't share the nation's ability to automatically commune (not that it needs it). Not sure if it'll be available in all three ages. Might skip MA, or be replaced with a statue version.

That does remind me. Is there any way at all to have a pretender with random magic paths?

[Neonivek]

Pantocreator nation?

I always wanted a hypothetical Pantocreator civ who was based off of having just one super duper pretender and basically nothing else.

[E. Albright]

Also, I was thinking about the idea of giving the nation specific sacred/special units if specific pretenders are chosen. I.e. if you choose a particular pretender, an event spawns an additional site at your capital allowing you to recruit additional types of units.

Major issue: only starting sites are nation-restricted, so if your capital falls, your sacreds won't show themselves to be particularly, ah, faithful.

Oh, by the way, can you mod in items restricted to your race ?

Yes.

Spoiler: Item restrictions (click to show/hide)

12-6 Restrictions
#restricted <nation nbr> | "nation name"
The item is restricted to this nation only.  Can be used multiple times on one item to enable it for a few nations.  A value of -1 restricts the item to the last manipulated nation, so this command can be used with #newnation.  Each restriction counts as one attribute.
#restricteditem <value>
This item can only be used by monsters with the proper #userestricteditem ability value.
#nomounted
The item cannot be used by mounted beings.
#nocoldblood
The item cannot be used by coldblooded beings.
#nodemon
The item cannot be used by demons.
#noundead
The item cannot be used by undead.
#noinanim
The item cannot be used by inanimate beings.
#noimmobile
The item cannot be used by immobile beings.
#onlymounted
The item can only be used by mounted beings.
#onlycoldblood
The item can only be used by coldblooded beings
#onlydemon
The item can only be used by demons.
#onlyundead
The item can only be used by undead.
#onlyinanim
The item can only be used by inanimate beings.
#immobileonly
The item can only be used by immobile beings.
#reqeyes
The item can only be used by a being with eyes.
#nofind
The item cannot be found after battle

That does remind me. Is there any way at all to have a pretender with random magic paths?

Sorta. This is as close as you'll get to just random paths:

Press 'r' when designing pretender to get a random design