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[itisnotlogical]

Must have X skill points to enter

I'm thinking of Fallout's speech checks. I beat one of the New Vegas DLC with an almost-perfect ending... not through any mechanical skill or because I paid attention, but because I can afford to pour all my points into Speech at every level-up. "Your character sheet checks out, here is the best ending. Sorry for the inconvenience." It really felt like cheating.

[Neonivek]

Mr. NewVegas is fascinating... because I actually think he is more obnoxious and unlistenable when he gains his confidence then when he is a meek scared little boy.

[NullForceOmega]

Sure you aren't confusing DJs here, neo?  I don't recall any quest to bolster Mr. Newvegas' confidence, while that whining, puling, failure Travis from F4 certainly needs it, so I don't arbitrarily wipe Diamond city from the map for his many, many offenses against humanity.

There is nothing in this world I hate more than stupidity, but cowardice is an extremely close second.

[Neonivek]

Sure you aren't confusing DJs here, neo?  I don't recall any quest to bolster Mr. Newvegas' confidence, while that whining, puling, failure Trevor from F4 certainly needs it, so I don't arbitrarily wipe Diamond city from the map for his many, many offenses against humanity.

There is nothing in this world I hate more than stupidity, but cowardice is an extremely close second.

Ohh sorry I mean the guy in F4... Trevor actually becomes more annoying if you confident boost him. Probably because he doesn't feel like he is confident, he feels like he is putting on an incredibly fake tough guy act.

I can't believe they managed to make Trevor worse... then when the voice actor had to make him intentionally bad.

I mean sure Trevor stuttered a bit... But he was endearingly meek... like a lost little puppy

But you boost his confidence and you are left with freeken Scrappy Doo.

[NullForceOmega]

There is nothing endearing about cowardice, and Travis' entire problem is that he is afraid of everything, thus he is a coward by definition.

That said, he does still sound terrible after the quest, but at least all I want to do is punch him in the face, not murder every inhabitant of his hometown for letting him play at being a DJ.

[AzyWng]

There is nothing in this world I hate more than stupidity

Darn. I was hoping we'd get along. In any case, the "must be this tall to enter"-style speech checks were specifically added to New Vegas, over the old percentage-based system that appeared in Fallout 3.

And the high-med-low chance system appeared in Fallout 4, because the hell kind of RPG game has flat yes or no checks for skills?

I specifically remember an it-he.org walkthrough of Fallout 3 questioning why a Repair of 67 was required to hit the "Emergency Stop" button.

That reminds me, either I was playing the game wrong or Fallout: New Vegas suffers from the idea of "guns get weaker as time goes on".

Because That Gun you picked up at Novac should definitely become That Piece of Pretty, Useless, and Pretty Useless Crap even against insects after a few levels.

[Neonivek]

Must have X skill points to enter

I'm thinking of Fallout's speech checks. I beat one of the New Vegas DLC with an almost-perfect ending... not through any mechanical skill or because I paid attention, but because I can afford to pour all my points into Speech at every level-up. "Your character sheet checks out, here is the best ending. Sorry for the inconvenience." It really felt like cheating.

What I often dislike about it is that there is often a CLEAR point inflation.

Is this more important? Well it needs a higher (or lower) check! Even though you are convincing a starving man that there is a meal he can smell in the next room.

---

AT LEAST in Old World Blues the highest speech check (100) is from trying to tell the most ridiculous lie possible.

[Chiefwaffles]

I like skill checks in game. Generally, I prefer the yes/no approach like New Vegas did over Fallout 4's approach, but I don't hate the chance-based one. It just feels arbitrary to me. Persuasion being based on chance makes it feel less like it's my character doing the talking and more like it's the RNG doing the talking.
Though skill checks should be well-done. Alternative (shortcuts) approaches to missions, extra nonessential stuff, etc.

Like in Fallout 2 there's a guy who asks you to convince the technician at a power plant to route more power to his home. You can try convincing the technician, or you can just use your Science skill to reroute the power yourself. Though Fallout 2 seems to balance this kind of thing by not actually telling you or even hinting that you can do this kind of stuff, which I'm unsure about.

[Krevsin]

Must have X skill points to enter

I'm thinking of Fallout's speech checks. I beat one of the New Vegas DLC with an almost-perfect ending... not through any mechanical skill or because I paid attention, but because I can afford to pour all my points into Speech at every level-up. "Your character sheet checks out, here is the best ending. Sorry for the inconvenience." It really felt like cheating.

I prefered it to Fallout 3's RNG-based system.

New Vegas would do well to obfuscate some of the options like 1 and 2 did (if you didn't have a high enough speech you couldn't even see the options). Otherwise as a system it's not a bad one. I just wish they made it less of a cure-all. Even though it makes a lot of sense that a silver-tongued person would pretty much be able to talk their way out of every situation involving people capable of conversation.

[Neonivek]

Yeah not being a silver tongued devil in Fallout 4... was basically asking for every single mission to fall apart.

[Darkmere]

I kinda wish more games would use a (modified, more robust) version of the Mass Effect stuff. If you're this big hero guy, people are going to take notice of what you're doing, so taking actions that fit with your reputation should be easier to do.

Threatening someone should be easier if you're known for bashing heads in when people don't agree with you, things like that.

I'm not sure how you get better at talking to people in combat-focused RPG's... Not specifically fallouts, either.

[Neonivek]

Dishonored kind of let your reputation proceed you depending on what you did.

Though sometimes to a ridiculous degree (All guards know eachother!)

[Krevsin]

Yeah not being a silver tongued devil in Fallout 4... was basically asking for every single mission to fall apart.

The problem with FO4 is more that most of the quests just aren't any good (95% of all quests in FO4 are just variations on "go there, kill things, retrieve thingamajig") and that having high charisma, rather than being a testament of your character's quick wit and clever thinking was usually just "do a thing a normal person would do". The fact that instead of giving you interesting dialogue or story consequences it usually just saved you a quick firefight didn't help either.

It was much better in Far Harbor, but it was still hampered by the RNG nature of it and the monstrously crippled dialogue system.

I kinda wish more games would use a (modified, more robust) version of the Mass Effect stuff. If you're this big hero guy, people are going to take notice of what you're doing, so taking actions that fit with your reputation should be easier to do.

Threatening someone should be easier if you're known for bashing heads in when people don't agree with you, things like that.

I'm not sure how you get better at talking to people in combat-focused RPG's... Not specifically fallouts, either.

Old Fallouts kinda do that. You have a Karma meter and based on your karma, NPCs will react differently. Some things are impossible to do with high karma while others are only possible through having high karma.

It's just not really up front and centre as it is in Mass Effect.


Speaking of Mass Effect

Talking Someone Out Of Racism In The Span Of A Single Conversation
Just no. I hate it when writers do this because it shows a complete lack of understanding for how racism (and humans in general) work. A deeply-rooted conviction isn't going to go away through a single conversation or a single well-constructed point. It can be a start on a long and bumpy road to change, but it's not instantaneous. Someone who's for their entire life believed that aliens are somehow less than fully sentient individuals with hopes, dreams, aspirations equal to any human's isn't going to drop those beliefs in the time span of a single conversation, regardless of how clever you think you're being with your BUT THEY FEEL TOO CAN'T YOU SEE bollocks. For deeply entrenched convictions to change, you need time and intensive work from both sides.

[Neonivek]

The problem with FO4 is more that most of the quests just aren't any good

It is Bethesda. Their open world is typically 95% wasting time doing nothing... and being confronted with constant stupidity.

To the point where the silly dodads they put in the background is considered more interesting and more "Storyful" then the actual game's story.

Even though FOR THE MOST PART they are just random dodads and people are projecting a story onto them. I know visual storytelling is important, but I think people gave Bethesda too much credit.

[Chiefwaffles]

You're really straining for more reasons to hate Bethesda here, Neo.
One of Bethesda's biggest strengths in storytelling are those small visual stories scattered across the gameworld. They definitely don't make up for Fallout 4's story faults, but to say they're just people projecting story onto random things is just a falsehood looking to hate on Bethesda more.