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Author Topic: Gaming Pet Peeves  (Read 518152 times)

itisnotlogical

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1125 on: November 18, 2014, 08:37:25 pm »

"Retro-inspired" games that look nothing like actual retro games. Cave Story could actually be mistaken for a Genesis or Sega-CD title; the majority of indie 2bit pixel garbage probably could not.

Also, Minecraft clones and DayZ clones. Everybody and their mother has made a Minecraft and/or DayZ clone, often combining the two into one game! Seeing these games on the front page of various online marketplaces fills me with a deep, bubbling disgust.
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Fniff

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1126 on: November 18, 2014, 08:42:51 pm »

Hrm. time to make a retro-inspired minecraft/DayZ clone!
...
It's sad how that would most likely be successful.

Neonivek

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1127 on: November 18, 2014, 08:46:25 pm »

"Retro-inspired" games that look nothing like actual retro games.

PERIOD! Heck just add "Retro-games" to my Pep Peeves.

I don't mind them usually looking different... but usually "retro-inspired" is short hand for "Ugly, but uhh we are using pixels so you will be fooled".

Nostalgia goggles are a weird thing... Because USUALLY it makes people remember old games as being better than what they are... but for "Retro" games they might as well be beer goggles because they see terrible games and go "Yep, these sure are retro-games".

But that is because Retro-game is short hand for "Game we don't want to put that much work into... but you won't care because you don't remember how Super Mario World was".

*starts foaming at mouth*
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Parsely

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1128 on: November 18, 2014, 08:50:41 pm »

I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it's good.
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Neonivek

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1129 on: November 18, 2014, 08:51:39 pm »

I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it's good.

And lucky for you Retro-games usually fail spectacularly in that area too.
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Parsely

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1130 on: November 18, 2014, 08:52:36 pm »

I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it's good.

And lucky for you Retro-games usually fail spectacularly in that area too.
*shruuuuug*
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Neonivek

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1131 on: November 18, 2014, 08:59:52 pm »

I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it's good.

And lucky for you Retro-games usually fail spectacularly in that area too.
*shruuuuug*

I guess my problem isn't so much retro-games they are fine.

It is that I ALWAYS ALWAYS picture the developer secretly saying when they make an ugly boring game going "Well of course it is ugly and boring it is retro" when to me, that isn't a key aspect of retrogames. The GOOD old games were polished and usually looked nice.
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Parsely

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1132 on: November 18, 2014, 09:03:37 pm »

I don't like bad games.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1133 on: November 18, 2014, 09:06:17 pm »

Hrm. time to make a retro-inspired minecraft/DayZ clone!
...
It's sad how that would most likely be successful.

There are two I can think of off the top of my head.  Unturned, and that suburban-Minecraft-with-zombies game I never caught the name of.
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Draxis

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1134 on: November 18, 2014, 09:12:11 pm »

The thing about the pixels craze is that it hugely lowers the barrier of entry for making games; it's a lot cheaper to get a decent-looking pixel game than 3D.  This lets there be more good indie games... but also way more bad ones.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1135 on: November 18, 2014, 09:22:39 pm »

I don't think those games are hard at all. The solutuon is to do a Depth-first search by hand, algorithmically trying all the possible game states until you find the winning one. Thats not hard (infact it's super easy and guarantees a solution), it's just really, really horribly tedious and boring.

A pet peeve for me is platformers like those where the solution is obvious, or obvious after a handful of deaths, but the execution is hard to pull off.  I'm looking at you, Super Meat Boy.  I hate that game so much I played it for hours just to ride the wave of building rage and frustration.  But besides SMB (wow, I just got that) being an incredible tease, requiring frame-perfect jumping when you already know the solution is a bad mechanic.

SMB is different. The fun in SMB comes not from solving the level, but from mastering the controls, along with the feedback the game gives you when you perform action (sound effects and animations are much more than a "pretty effect" in a game like this, and serve a mechanical purpose). It's fun because your brain associates the successful completion of a level with your gained skill, and rewards you for it.

When you completly master a game, it generally stops being as much fun. Someone who could beat SMB 100% of the time would probably stop being entertained by it. Many people have already mastered those sorts of text games (discovering the "try everything" solution to these games would give people a mild feeling of reward, in the same way discovering the tactic to Tic Tac Toe does, but then thats it), and thuse they are really easy and boring (but still take a long time to actually complete). At that point, there is no more "skill" to gain.

The fun in games like SMB is the overcomable difficulty executing the solution, not the discovery of the solution. The fun in a puzzle game is the discovery of the solution, not the execution (That "Eureka" moment). Those "ultra hard text games" are both trivial to solve and execute (taking a long time to execute does not make something difficult), and neither gives much of a reward for doing so.

It should also be noted that this is all based off the game mechanics of such text games. They are terrable games. Some can still be entertaining by providing entertaining text and situations. (Interestingly, a bad game can still be an entertaining product).



I think the problem for "Retro-inspired" games is one of promotion. Pixel art can look quite good (and a number of such "Retro" games have good art), but it's not really "Retro" anymore given it's quite a common art style. Pixel art can look as good as and is just as valid of an art chose as 3D, and you can pick pixel art for other reasons than "Because Retro". The problem is just abusing the word "Retro" as a "feel good" word that is designed to invoke positive emotions (be that through nostalgia or otherwise). Many of the "Retro" games I have played are debatably not even very retro, but are still fun.

Being retro doesn't make a bad game, but it doesn't make a good game either. It's just an overused marketing term.

Also, as Draxis said, like Dwarf Fortress's choice of ASCII, pixel art can ease the development process, and can be a valid design decision for development/mechanical rather than artistic reasons. I won't shy away from a game that advertises itself as "Retro", but I do wish people would abuse the term less.



Minecraft art style

Mostly in reference to the player "models", and the textures. The "Blocky worlds" has some legitimate uses, simplicity of implementation, it's easy for the player to understand how their actions will affect the appearence of the world etc.

Minecraft's graphics look sort of bad, but they are functional and non-offensive enough to work. But I have seen the style pop up in other non-sandbox-construction games, and it looks terrable. If I were going to make a game that wasn't a Minecraft clone, I would not base my art style off Minecraft.
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Darkmere

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1136 on: November 18, 2014, 10:24:41 pm »

+1 to minecraft graphics. They looked like shit then, still do, and everyone copying them also, in fact, looks like shit. It's not a "style" unless "utter lack of effort" is a "style".
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1137 on: November 18, 2014, 11:28:03 pm »

Interestingly, a bad game can still be an entertaining product

Side note, but has anyone played Lord of the Rings: Conquest?  Mechanically awful, filled with unpatched glitches, generally poorly thought out.  Also some of the most fun I've ever had on the Xbox 360.  And I played it totally as intended.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1138 on: November 19, 2014, 02:05:29 am »

Interestingly, a bad game can still be an entertaining product

Side note, but has anyone played Lord of the Rings: Conquest?  Mechanically awful, filled with unpatched glitches, generally poorly thought out.  Also some of the most fun I've ever had on the Xbox 360.  And I played it totally as intended.

I did. I agree with everything except "most fun." It was pretty awful. Of course, I had played Star Wars: Battlefront (both the first and second, and the first was amazingly great), so I was comparing it to the high bar set by that...
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Virtz

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Re: Gaming Pet Peeves
« Reply #1139 on: November 19, 2014, 09:29:09 am »

Interestingly, a bad game can still be an entertaining product

Side note, but has anyone played Lord of the Rings: Conquest?  Mechanically awful, filled with unpatched glitches, generally poorly thought out.  Also some of the most fun I've ever had on the Xbox 360.  And I played it totally as intended.
I've played through the campaign with friends, and it was pretty hillarious every time. They gave little to no shits about canon and the result was unintentially funny. The mechanics weren't unenjoyable either, but were pretty fucked balance-wise. :P
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