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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 103573 times)

Strife26

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #495 on: July 31, 2013, 08:09:21 pm »

And convict them of what, exactly?
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SalmonGod

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #496 on: July 31, 2013, 08:10:51 pm »

A person doesn't need to be convicted of anything to be ruined by the justice system in this country.
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Scelly9

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #497 on: July 31, 2013, 08:16:07 pm »

A person doesn't need to be convicted of anything to be ruined by the justice system in this country.
True, or alternatively anything to do with drugs (fuckin easy to plant stuff), or copyright infringement (Piracy. Everyone has done it at one point or another)
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SalmonGod

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #498 on: July 31, 2013, 08:28:32 pm »

A person doesn't need to be convicted of anything to be ruined by the justice system in this country.
True, or alternatively anything to do with drugs (fuckin easy to plant stuff), or copyright infringement (Piracy. Everyone has done it at one point or another)

It's been noted that there are some aspects of the CFAA that are so broad that it could be used to convict literally anybody who uses the internet.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #499 on: July 31, 2013, 08:29:21 pm »

A person doesn't need to be convicted of anything to be ruined by the justice system in this country.
True, or alternatively anything to do with drugs (fuckin easy to plant stuff), or copyright infringement (Piracy. Everyone has done it at one point or another)

It's been noted that there are some aspects of the CFAA that are so broad that it could be used to convict literally anybody who uses the internet.

selective law enforcement basically

abandon the planet before it's too late
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alway

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #500 on: July 31, 2013, 08:36:11 pm »

And convict them of what, exactly?
"Terrorism" seems to be in vogue lately. But in general, any sort of pre-emptive "stop them before they do something bad" laws. "Conspiracy" would be another possibility; as that one simply requires "an agreement between two people to commit a crime in the future." Taking evidence out of context could easily convict most people of that one. And since these databases are NATIONAL SECRETS, you can't even really put them back into context even if you know they are blatantly false.

So yeah, selective enforcement.

And for what, exactly? Because THE BOOGIEMONSTERS ARE COMING AND YOU NEED TO BE SAFE.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 08:43:08 pm by alway »
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misko27

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #501 on: July 31, 2013, 11:34:54 pm »

SO, tell me, what powers does the government have now? Hypothetically, of course?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 02:18:06 am by misko27 »
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Guardian G.I.

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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
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palsch

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #503 on: August 01, 2013, 09:19:34 am »

Haven't looked into the XKeyscore thing yet (at first glance it looks like a database similar to PRISM, which would tell little to nothing about collection or use, but still...) but some more relevant news, mostly from the Lawfare roundup.

Diane Feinstein has outlined some proposed reforms to the NSA metadata collection program. They are mostly about greater (but still limited) disclosure, but there are two significant substantial points;
Quote
●the ideological diversity of the FISA court be increased (86 percent of judges appointed to the court by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. have been Republicans and the vast majority were prosecutors, according to media reports); and

●the FISA court review each query of the database as soon as practicable to determine its propriety under the law.
It's not immediately clear to me how much of a change the second would be (searches of the database already appear to have judicial review of some sort) but the former could be significant.

Especially if paired with the following proposal. From the Senate hearing testimony of James Carr [pdf];
Quote
The proposal I made in the op-ed piece is whether it would be worthwhile for the judges of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance, when a government FISA application raises a new or novel issue of constitutional or statutory interpretation, to have discretion to designate a previously security-cleared attorney to challenge the government’s request.
Essentially it turns the FISA court from a warrant hearing where the government just submits its case to the judge into an adversarial court whenever there might be a substantial issue in front of it. This doesn't exist in normal search warrant hearings - ever - but as he points out a person has the opportunity to challenge a normal warrant that has been executed against them (at which time they become aware of it). A FISA can never be challenged in this way, so it would make sense to have an addition layer of protection front-loaded into them.

I've actually seen a couple of versions of this proposal but can't find the older articles again now. Once more, fuck google for killing reader and fuck feedly for not having a search function.

Finally, the fifth circuit held that searches based on locational data from cell phones are not unconstitutional. OK, little contorted there, but basically a magistrate had held that such a search would violate the fourth amendment. The fifth circuit said it doesn't, although such a search may still not be constitutional for other reasons.

The held that locational data generated when you make a call from a cell phone is unprotected under the fourth because it is a business record of information 'knowingly conveyed' by the user. This only applies to cases where the cell company keeps such records and where the records deal with calls made by the user.

This is significant because it's similar to the pen register metadata rules, where logging calls made by a phone is unprotected under the fourth amendment. In this case the ruling is a bit narrower but still means the government has significant leeway when collecting metadata.
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RedKing

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #504 on: August 01, 2013, 09:45:26 am »

Yeah, pen register tracking is one of those "grey" areas that I think people should be more aware of. Our cell phones have basically become little tracking devices that we willingly carry around with us because of their utility. I don't think most people realize exactly how much positional data they generate on a near-continual basis. Even non-smartphones generate pen register data, and pretty much ALL the cell carriers store that data.

I work with that kind of data pretty regularly, and yeah....it's some cool but scary shit. "Oh...dude was pacing up and down this street, then he goes across the street to this park, then it looks like he went into this bar..."
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Scoops Novel

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #505 on: August 01, 2013, 10:21:47 am »

Outrage has been nothing but a negligible background noise to me for at least 10 years.  It's not so much an emotion as a fuel reserve I tap into for energy to keep working on getting everyone else to recognize the stuff that's going on and why it's important.  My outrage is a very deep fuel reserve. Most people I know who believe the same things I do basically give up on everything within a couple years, and encourage me to do the same.  I can't do it.  If I can't maintain a vision of a different future, then I can't cope with the present.

How many left the country? Did any of those go to places which where more malleable? By the way, if anyone knows a site that collects stuff such as the Tor talk from earlier, I'd appreciate it.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #506 on: August 01, 2013, 10:49:04 am »

Where else is there? That's the saddest part of this. It's happening everywhere. Where could you possible go where you'd be better off?
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Scoops Novel

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #507 on: August 01, 2013, 11:07:12 am »

I at least like to think there are a few places which are much less safe, but more malleable around. It's not the surveillance I'm talking about, since my above thoughts are mostly fucked in that regard, but the opportunities to make an impact on how people look at it.
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Mrhappyface

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #508 on: August 01, 2013, 11:13:42 am »

Yes, but to think of yourself of anything but small-time is delusional. The fact that the "could" is not a reasonable reason to be paranoid.
Where else is there? That's the saddest part of this. It's happening everywhere. Where could you possible go where you'd be better off?
It's been "happening" in the US since before Hoover and Cabinet Noir has existed since the 16th century.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: NSA, PRISM, XKeyscore - The Snowden Saga: ...There's more.
« Reply #509 on: August 01, 2013, 11:15:56 am »

Yes, but to think of yourself of anything but small-time is delusional. The fact that the "could" is not a reasonable reason to be paranoid.
Where else is there? That's the saddest part of this. It's happening everywhere. Where could you possible go where you'd be better off?
It's been "happening" in the US since before Hoover and Cabinet Noir has existed since the 16th century.

Spying? Yes. Mass surveillance? Watching and tracking everyone? No, obviously not.
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