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[Tsuchigumo550]

I've been wanting to build a mecha-themed TCG game for a while now, but I'm lacking the tools, the design, and the ideas to do it. I've seen only a small amount of the systems used in TCG games, I'm most familiar with Pokemon, but I remember some other systems.

Robot Combat League is an inspiration, so mecha are less militant and more stylistic.

The ideas I've been floating around are an energy system close to Pokemon, but the myriad types don't exist and that gets in the way of strategic builds. Any ideas or system examples would be very helpful.

[inEQUALITY]

I can't say I really have any ideas right off the bat, but having experience doing a lot of personal TCG work just for fun and the challenge, and having done a bit of research into the subject*, I can do some rambling that might be helpful. 

There's a lot of questions that each TCG answers differently. Coming up with ideas for these things can really help formulate a unique system, and one that won't seem like a carbon copy of something else. Some of this may seem like common sense, but it helps to really nail it down well.

• How do you win? Is it similar to the Pokemon TCG, where it's typically by getting all your prizes or by your opponent having no pokemon in play; or is it like in MtG, where it's typically by reducing your opponent's life total to 0? Or is it something different entirely?
• What kind of tempo does the game have? Does the game start small and then gradually allow bigger plays, like in MtG or Cardfight!! Vanguard, or are you usually able to make big plays very early like in [modern] YuGiOh?
• What sort of resource management must the players be subject to? Will it be similar to a Mana system like in WoW or Kaijudo, an energy system like in Pokemon, or something entirely different?)
• How are decks built by players? Will it be like most TCGs where there are sets released in boosters (with some secondary product, or perhaps none at all), or will it be an LCG like Netrunner or the Star Wars LCG where expansions are released as one whole packaged box containing a predetermined set of cards so deckbuilding isn't based around a secondary market?
• How will you make different strategies available to the players without letting there simply be 'one best deck'? MtG has the color pie and mana system, YuGiOh resorts to bannings and restrictions (terrible system, IMO!), Vanguard has the clan system, Pokemon uses its energy system to, in most metas, make it harder for multi-energy decks to be built. There's a lot of ways to do it, and no best ways... only bad ways.

There's more things to take into consideration of course (power level, card appearance, templating, stats, kinds of cards, timing rules, other gameplay rules, etc), but these are some of the basics that help lay down the foundation for a TCG, from my experience. But, take everything I say with a grain of salt. 


* A large part of which consisted of - and I recommend checking these out even if you barely know the game - articles on the core design, and other aspects of gameplay, of Magic the Gathering. Those things are gold mines and show just why the MtG system is incredibly solid design. Especially given that it was the first TCG ever.

[Tsuchigumo550]

I can't say I really have any ideas right off the bat, but having experience doing a lot of personal TCG work just for fun and the challenge, and having done a bit of research into the subject*, I can do some rambling that might be helpful. 

There's a lot of questions that each TCG answers differently. Coming up with ideas for these things can really help formulate a unique system, and one that won't seem like a carbon copy of something else. Some of this may seem like common sense, but it helps to really nail it down well.

• How do you win? Is it similar to the Pokemon TCG, where it's typically by getting all your prizes or by your opponent having no pokemon in play; or is it like in MtG, where it's typically by reducing your opponent's life total to 0? Or is it something different entirely?
• What kind of tempo does the game have? Does the game start small and then gradually allow bigger plays, like in MtG or Cardfight!! Vanguard, or are you usually able to make big plays very early like in [modern] YuGiOh?
• What sort of resource management must the players be subject to? Will it be similar to a Mana system like in WoW or Kaijudo, an energy system like in Pokemon, or something entirely different?)
• How are decks built by players? Will it be like most TCGs where there are sets released in boosters (with some secondary product, or perhaps none at all), or will it be an LCG like Netrunner or the Star Wars LCG where expansions are released as one whole packaged box containing a predetermined set of cards so deckbuilding isn't based around a secondary market?
• How will you make different strategies available to the players without letting there simply be 'one best deck'? MtG has the color pie and mana system, YuGiOh resorts to bannings and restrictions (terrible system, IMO!), Vanguard has the clan system, Pokemon uses its energy system to, in most metas, make it harder for multi-energy decks to be built. There's a lot of ways to do it, and no best ways... only bad ways.

There's more things to take into consideration of course (power level, card appearance, templating, stats, kinds of cards, timing rules, other gameplay rules, etc), but these are some of the basics that help lay down the foundation for a TCG, from my experience. But, take everything I say with a grain of salt. 


* A large part of which consisted of - and I recommend checking these out even if you barely know the game - articles on the core design, and other aspects of gameplay, of Magic the Gathering. Those things are gold mines and show just why the MtG system is incredibly solid design. Especially given that it was the first TCG ever.

I've fought a LOT of the current Pokemon meta decks thanks to TCGO, and I love the versatility of the system- there are lots of synergies in that game you can't see until you dig. I have a deck involving no-retreat Galvantula that deal tons of damage when they get a lot of energy, but they discard. Solution? Grab energy like crazy with abilities.

Anyway, back on topic.

Winning... I haven't decided. I'd tossed around the idea of the opponent taking losses stylistically the same as Pokemon, with a different system instead of prize cards from your deck- I was considering Event Cards, that could turn the tide of battle, something akin to Ace Spec (superpower Trainers) from Pokemon, but one use. You also won't know which one is which, similar to Prize Cards.

Tempo-wise, I'm not sure. If there's some kind of "evolution system" (I was thinking something along the lines of "improvement chains" where the base card can become different machines... Let me give you an example.

Let's say the base machine starts off with two attacks, no ability, and fairly good HP values. Most machines on base value will have a "free" attack, and attack requiring a fairly low amount of energy, and an ability. The next upgrade on the chain might add an ability, such as damage reduction for certain attacks, and a different upgrade could net you a highly powerful attack. Attacks persist- you can reach max level and use your free attack.

Resources are energy, but it's difficult to come up with different types of energy when there's no real need to- I may have to do a color-olny style thing. The idea would be six different colors, but theming would be harder. I'd have to keep some idea of "these focus on this aspect" as seen in Pokemon types- some discard, some go for statuses, etc... Some will also be that "colorless", but much less frequently than in Pokemon.

Decks would be booster packs, as well as "core packs" that come with a specific group of cards. They would come with a full line of upgrades, and fitting cards to go with it.

How exactly does Mana work? I'd like attacks to require some kind of power, but it could be much easier to use a kind of dual-system where "energy" is handled with tokens.

[Tsuchigumo550]

I think I've got a sort of system worked out now.

Mecha Cards-
These come in a few variants. In order:

Basic. Basic Mecha generally have weak, low-cost options for attack, occasionally an ability or passive, and about 50HP.
They sometimes have a Company, which determines it's color. Some lack a Company and can be used interchangeably with others.

Current Companies are-
Syndicate, Mercenaries, Union, Militia, Coalition, and Interventionists. Syndicate cards often focus on powers that are self-destructive and able to backfire in exchange for extreme power, Mercenaries generally use quick and dirty tactics that hinder foes. Other "bends" are undecided.

Unaligned Basic Mecha can use any energy type, and often can branch into different companies based on given abilities. this is similar to these companies purchasing a base mecha and outfitting it in their style.

Mecha can "upgrade" anywhere from 0 to 3 times, the most common being a 1 or 2 chain upgrade.
For instance, let's take a Syndicate mecha line...
(None) QRU-Paradigm -> QRU/F-Paradigm S -> QRU/MP Paradigm Shift
This 2-chain starts simply, as a company-free base mecha. It's a 30HP mecha with a free and 2-energy attack as well as an ability that can heal itself or other cards.

From there, it adds another ability- this time, one that allows it to attack twice instead of attacking and healing.

Finally, it gains a 4-energy attack with a vampiric effect.

---

Then, there are Company Cards.

Company Card: Not strictly needed, just an easy indication of what company someone is playing. You always start with one, cannot play more than one, and one provides you with a set amount of energy per-turn. When someone dosen't have one, a single energy chip or token in the color of the company being played will suffice.
Company Cards can also come in "Joint Operation" cards, where it can give one of two energy per turn. These should probably have some method of balance, but I can't come up with one. It may be less of a thing than what I'm thinking it would be.

---
Next are Equipment Cards. Equipment cards augment Mecha by giving them further attacks or abilities akin to evolution- except that they can be attached to any mecha sharing their color.

---

More soon.

[Cheesecake]

PTW

[Tsuchigumo550]

This might become a programming project over the summer, as well. Not sure, depends on how well I can master Java.

Anyway, nothing new yet, just posting to say it might come out primarily in program form before a retail release if I get that lucky.

[bulborbish]

I think I've got a sort of system worked out now.

Current Companies are-
Syndicate, Mercenaries, Union, Militia, Coalition, and Interventionists. Syndicate cards often focus on powers that are self-destructive and able to backfire in exchange for extreme power, Mercenaries generally use quick and dirty tactics that hinder foes. Other "bends" are undecided.

If your willing to accept some suggestions, I could provide a few on the companies based off of my impression of some of the Specialties

Militia likely should benefit in general on Mecha's which can be placed on the field easily, and their effects could focus on getting more mecha on the field. To counter this, their mecha are in general not as high preforming

Union would probably be a more defensive set, oriented on strong mech defence and enduring other factions.

Coalition I see as benefiting more from combined arms, where they are average mecha alone, but accumulate bonuses as other Coalition type mechs enter the field

Interventionists seems to fit more of a reactionary set of attacks, likely obtaining bonuses to attack strength and energy when the enemy activates abilities, or bring mecha out, etc.

[Neonivek]

So basically from what I understand Syndicate cards are based around double edged swords.

I do like Bulborbish's idea for Militia somewhat. A faction based upon reinforcements and endless numbers. For example a Mech that includes a squad of rocket men.

Interventionists seems to fit more of a reactionary set of attacks

Ohh admit it you got that entirely from the name "Intervension".

[Parsely]

What's a TCG? ._.

[Tsuchigumo550]

Trading Card Game, though I've seen some "TCG" cards with no game...

Anyway, fleshing out ideas for what the mecha look like for the sides, but I'm on my 3ds and typing is a b-

[bulborbish]

Interventionists seems to fit more of a reactionary set of attacks

Ohh admit it you got that entirely from the name "Intervension".

I will confess, all of my ideas are pretty much based off the names, but Intervention is the most clear of the examples.

[Tsuchigumo550]

Doing some more thinking, and what I've had so far:

Syndicate- Luck, double-edge.
Mercenary- Cheap and fast or reactionary- their attacks would be quicker to get out but weaker, unless certain conditions are met, or have attacks that are more powerful depending on certain circumstances.

Unions are defense, and Coalitions are offensive in general terms.

Interventionists are all about coming in and going out fast. Fast to play, fast to attack, fast to retreat.

[Neonivek]

Interventionists are about the power plays. They hang back until they got the pieces in motion and just storm in with their overwhelming attacks.

"attacks would be quicker to get out but weaker, unless certain conditions are met, or have attacks that are more powerful depending on certain circumstances"

You can do both you know. They are Small and Big. They pepper with small but weak units that are quick to go out. Then much later they can drop their big plays and big attacks.

[darkflagrance]

Luck can be a fun mechanic to build a faction on, but you should be prepared for them to be the weakest as a result.

[Neonivek]

Luck can be a fun mechanic to build a faction on, but you should be prepared for them to be the weakest as a result.

I don't know the Blowback dragon from Yu-gi-oh was fairly powerful and used for the longest time and its power relied on luck. As well before the almighty contact fusions, there were even decks based around manipulating luck to your advantage.

It just depends on what "Luck" means.

Also one faction needs to be the spymasters, where their ability is basically outright card manipulation. Seeing opponent's hands or your own deck.