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[Sheb]

I'm going to dedicate you this one.

Keep up the good work,victory is coming. It is not the first time that a Sultan is brought down by young Turks.

[Owlbread]

I'm going to dedicate you this one.

Keep up the good work,victory is coming. It is not the first time that a Sultan is brought down by young Turks.

Hopefully this time it won't lead to genocide.

[Leatra]

I know, but the international media is focused on Taksim, which is why going by them the protests are winding down.  You can't win if the world forget about you.

As for occupying city hall, I meant more protesting in front of it that storming the building. It's an AKP mayor in Istanbul, right?

Well, the number of protestors in Taksim is decreasing and increasing by time. Nothing can be done about it. Other regions get more police brutality so people tend to protest in these areas. The protests in İzmir was more brutal because of AKP loyalists and civil police ambushing the protestors.

Protesting in front of city hall would give AKP an opportunity to attack the protestors by branding them as terrorists who wanted to storm the place. And yes, they would exaggerate that much.

Amazing photo

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Taking cover behind the barricades are kind of risky because police trucks tends to ram barricades and run down anyone behind them. Photo looks cool though.

I'm going to dedicate you this one.

Keep up the good work,victory is coming. It is not the first time that a Sultan is brought down by young Turks.

Yeah, Erdoğan keeps forgetting that. He is clearly obsessed with Ottoman emperors but he forgets about the fact that that most late-Ottoman emperors were very inefficient and cowardly bastards who were brought down by the Turkish people after getting defeated in the World War I.

Thanks for the support. The police in Foo Fighters' music video still looked more humane than ours

[Sheb]

Protesting in front of city hall would give AKP an opportunity to attack the protestors by branding them as terrorists who wanted to storm the place. And yes, they would exaggerate that much.

I don't doubt it for a minute. Erdogan is already calling you terrorists after all.

[Morrigi]

What do you think the chances are of things turning into a full-blown rebellion if this keeps up?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If Erdogan doesn't back down? Almost certain. The government has gone past the point of no return for this just dying out. The funny part is that this would probably already be over if they hadn't cracked down.

[Zangi]

@The spraying video with lady in red dress.

Ah, context, enlightening.  But yea, I still stand by the observation that guy seemed very eager, the way he is running around and stumbling...

@Comparison to other put-downs of protests... eh, I figure the difference is who gets the narrative out.  Like calling protesters thugs/hooligans and trying to incite violence from them, so they can take it out of context.
Erdoğan's strategy right now is writing the narrative.  Or at least muddling the situation so that outsiders and those who are not following the protests cannot be entirely sure of whats happening.  In effect, sowing doubt in what is really happening and depending on people's default position of... not doing anything / not caring.
Sure, police in other places didn't kill people... but they still did some heavy handed stuff.

[Morrigi]

If Erdogan doesn't back down? Almost certain. The government has gone past the point of no return for this just dying out. The funny part is that this would probably already be over if they hadn't cracked down.

The funnier part is that if it does boil over the U.S. probably won't support the rebels because they'll have a real chance of reforming a secular democracy.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If Erdogan doesn't back down? Almost certain. The government has gone past the point of no return for this just dying out. The funny part is that this would probably already be over if they hadn't cracked down.

The funnier part is that if it does boil over the U.S. probably won't support the rebels because they'll have a real chance of reforming a secular democracy.

I don't know what makes you think that. From both an idealistic and pragmatic standpoint, the US benefits from siding with the protestors and loses from siding with Erdogan, who is both Islamist and trying to move Turkey out of the US-EU power bloc.

[Sheb]

The US stand from having a stable, strong Turkey that can bash Syria. They don't want the uncertainty that come with turmoil and regime change.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

At this point anybody could bash Syria.

There is a potential for turmoil in the regime change, but as the Turkish military seems content to either stay out of it or help the protestors that won't be an issue.

As before, if Erdogan is allowed to remain in power he'll keep moving Turkey towards an Eastern power bloc, and then the US gains nothing from Turkey.

[Sheb]

Turkey is going to move eastward no matter what. (Although I'd rather say middle-eastward). They tried to get into the EU, and we all but closed the door. With the west closed to them, they have no other direction to go, and Erdogan's fall won't change that.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Turkey doesn't have to join the EU to not move eastward, it just has to have a pro-Western or at least non-Islamist government, which Erdogan's fall is likely to precipitate.

[10ebbor10]

Turkey is going to move eastward no matter what. (Although I'd rather say middle-eastward). They tried to get into the EU, and we all but closed the door. With the west closed to them, they have no other direction to go, and Erdogan's fall won't change that.

Turkish acension to the EU is still an option.

Just some problems with censorship and the like. Totally not the fact that Turkey would become the most influential country in the EU. Nope.

[Sheb]

Well, Turkey's population is smaller than Germany's, and less than half its GDP. Furthermore, you can be sure the ratios in the European Parliament would be skewed to keep them down.

Greece and Cyprus are a more real problem. Greece has shown that it's not averse to blocking other countries accession (Cyprus was only let in because Greece took the whole Eastern expansion hostage, and now they're annoying Macedonia.  Fuck Greece.), and Cyprus show no will to compromise, as shown by their rejection of the 2004 UN Peace Plan.

And then, there is good old Islamophobia. A few years back, when the talks were going strong, the French FN ran adds warning about Muslims invasions, and other far-right party did as well. More mainstream politicians jumped on the bandwagon, including Merkel, who'd prefer giving the Turk as "favored partnership" instead of making them members.

Now, you can't expect a country like Turkey to stay at the West's doors, doing our bidding while being kept in some sort of half-assed "special relationship". Either you accept them as peers, or they'll have to make their own alliances. Now, for years they were at the West doors, so once that one closed, well, it started paying attention to its other neighbors. Turns out they're Eastward of Turkey.

Now, I don't think all is lost. As Leantra showed, the Turks prefers to think of themselves as Europeans than Middle-Easterner (who could blame them for that?). If the EU get its fingers out of its collective arse and get serious about Turkey membership, I think it could still be done, with great benefits for both sides. And if we have to kick out Greece and Cyprus to make room, so be it.


Did I tell you how much I hated Greece's European policy?