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Author Topic: Arab Spring springs to Turkey  (Read 42949 times)

misko27

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #210 on: June 04, 2013, 11:27:17 pm »

The Times is devoted a whole page to it today, and one of the Opinion Articles was on it.

Heh... sorry for asking this, but which times? There are way too many news papers called the times... NY times, LA times, The Times...
All times I refer to are the Present day. As for which Times i refer to, I refer to the most relevant one to me, that is, the New York Times.
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King DZA

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #211 on: June 05, 2013, 12:48:36 am »

Goddamn I wish I could be there to help out. I'm never around when all the really awesome protests start...

Guess the most I can offer from my current location are my best wishes to the brave and hope for a positive outcome.

Spaghetti7

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #212 on: June 05, 2013, 03:25:49 am »

Had a look through my phone's news (which takes top stories from a lot of UK papers) and there was nothing on it. You've got a fair bit of coverage on BBC World News though, although they're still not taking a very definite side.
That, and the only deaths they even mention are only ones confirmed by "officials": The man shot by an unidentified gunman and one who was killed when a car drove through a protest. Note the lack of anything to do with the police there.

But good luck Leatra, it looks pretty nasty out there.
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Sheb

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #213 on: June 05, 2013, 03:53:50 am »

Erdogan did said some nasty stuff about Twitter, it's just possible that FB is afraid to be blacked out.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #214 on: June 05, 2013, 08:29:00 am »

Something from Facebook

Quote
#OccupyGezi : Tonight is one of the holy nights for the Muslims, Kandil. Some newspapers try to pump provocations claiming that the protestors will raid mosques. As a precaution, the protestors started a campaign and they have been offering traditional Kandil bakery and dessert- on the streets to show that they are not against religion or any religious community.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Sheb

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #215 on: June 05, 2013, 09:05:58 am »

So apparently the unions are calling for strikes. Unions tend to be more organized, so do we know what their demands are?
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XXSockXX

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2013, 09:16:38 am »

That, and the only deaths they even mention are only ones confirmed by "officials": The man shot by an unidentified gunman and one who was killed when a car drove through a protest. Note the lack of anything to do with the police there.
German media have mentioned rumors about more deaths, apparently these 2 are the only ones they could confirm with both hospitals and authorities at this point.

I haven't heard about that facebook thing, but people are getting arrested now for “inciting riots and conducting propaganda” on Twitter.

Apparently Taksim square has remained rather peaceful while violent clashes continue in Ankara and other cities.

So apparently the unions are calling for strikes. Unions tend to be more organized, so do we know what their demands are?
As I understand it, it's just a general strike, the protesters are a diverse bunch without a clear-cut list of demands.

Picture of a couple celebrating their wedding during the protests:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


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Slayerhero90

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #217 on: June 05, 2013, 09:18:07 am »

Wow. Gasmask wedding.
That's actually kinda badass.
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Leatra

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #218 on: June 05, 2013, 10:19:50 am »

Questions will have to wait because I'm going to Taksim again. I'll respond after returning.
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XXSockXX

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #219 on: June 05, 2013, 10:21:47 am »

Questions will have to wait because I'm going to Taksim again. I'll respond after returning.
Stay safe & good luck!
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #220 on: June 06, 2013, 03:49:04 am »

Anyone know some livestreams that are still active? I know there's a few in the thread, but many of them seem to have been cut short by now. I know there was a reddit link, but i can't find that either.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 03:50:56 am by Novel Scoops »
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XXSockXX

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #221 on: June 06, 2013, 09:52:16 am »

The stream from a german cable news channel i was posting earlier is up again now. It's agency footage from a roof over Taksim square.

The private streams linked in the OP and on occupy gezi are sort of coming and going. This one seems up right now, also showing Taksim, where apparently things have remained peaceful and police-free.

Clashes continue in other parts of the country (and other parts of Istanbul probably), yesterday a 3rd death was officially confirmed.

Some numbers from a news piece (in german):
About 4300 people have been injured since the beginning of the protests according to NGOs (the turkish government reports a whole 64!).
According to the government also 244 cops have been injured and 317 cop cars have been burned or damaged otherwise.

While there was some half-assed attempt to apologize for police brutality yesterday, Erdogan seems uncompromising and blames protesters and foreigners for instigating violence. So it looks like this is going to continue for now...
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #222 on: June 06, 2013, 10:03:29 am »

Erdogan has apparently decided that he's going to go ahead with demolishing the park again.

I told you so.

Also, have this extremely high quality animation to use if you need to explain the situation to somebody.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:08:45 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Leatra

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #223 on: June 06, 2013, 12:39:23 pm »

So I have been to Taksim yesterday. There was no police around so it was safe. There was also lots of foreigners around. I heard some foreigners arrested by the police, so it's not surprising. I'm sure government will say "they are agents" or something like that. People were very helpful, I got offered some food like 6 times in 4 hours. The occupiers have no food problems because food is pretty much free. It's 10th day for the occupiers today. It looks like the Smurfs village here. Here are some photos describing the commune-like lifestyle of protestors.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

People who are posting stuff from Twitter about the protests are being arrested. An İzmir Human Rights Organization member confirmed this. The number of arrested people are estimated to be 40.

Some interesting photos from an an English website. Darth Vader joining the protestors, women protestors doing yoga like the violent rioters they are, a makeshift library, a bride and groom marching with their wedding attire, protestor SWAT team, etc.

Not all cops are monsters. Some are even resigning. I have seen some cops handing out gas masks and carrying the wounded. I have also noticed this photo showing two protestors carrying a wounded cop.

Moroccans are protesting Erdoğan's visit. The banner says "no to the criminal’s visit to our country"


Several unions are protesting. You can see KESK (Confederation of Public Workers' Unions) marching here. Four big unions of Turkey have dropped work. DİSK (Confederation of Revolutionary Trade Unions of Turkey), TTB (Turkish Medical Association) and TMMOB (Union of Chambers of Turkish Engineers and Architects) joined the protests. The number of protestors from these unions are reported to be 850,000 from this Turkish source. Of course not all of them are in one location. We don't have that much free space in Taksim. There is no general strike, some unions are dropping the work for short periods, that's all. Protestors are still urging the unions for a general strike. We'll see what happens.

https://twitter.com/bayfiratyildiz/status/340943561065373697/photo/1


Leandra: As for AKP loosing, do you have any idea of the sentiment outside the cities, the in the traditional AKP stronghold? With the media black-out, I'd expect a lot of older rural people to have no idea what's going on and thinking the protesters are rioters that should be put down. Could be worth launching a "call your grandma" campaign.

There are some protests in the rural areas too. For example, in Hatay protests, 2 protestors got killed by the police. I don't remember the exact number, but around 65 provinces out of 81 are protesting. The ignorance still exists because not everyone is aware of social media. There are even people who think this is a political party rally of some kind. There are old people protesting too as you can see from the photos I posted, but they are usually only in big cities.

I salute you from across the globe, sir. Please, keep safe. We don't want to lose you. Look, if it's too much to ask then don't, but I want your opinion on a few things.
A) Do you think a revolution is possible, and would you take part in one?
B) If A is yes, would you want any foreign support to overthrow the government? Do you think this would just cause trouble?
C) What's your stance? Are there any groups or factions in this chaos or Gov and People?
D) How do you think this is going to end?
E) What do you think the fallout for the region will be? More revolutions/protesting?
I'm sorry, I just really want to know. This is an opportunity for us all to be educated by an inside source. It's so rare for things like this to happen. But anyway, I support you man. Keep your head down, don't take risks.
Good questions. No need to apologize, these are the exact kind of questions I would love to answer.
A) A revolution is possible because, well, Turkish people are easy to keep docile but hard to calm down once they rebel. Especially the young people will never go back to living normal with this government again. Every death creates a martyr, and strengthens the cause. If a revolution happens, I would definitely support it.

B) You mean direct help? Then, no. People have already started saying things like "This is all a game being played by superpowers". People here are very sensitive when it comes to being "supported" by a foreign power. Erdoğan already has a reputation for licking the ass of USA and it would put the protestors in a hypocritical situation. Indirect help or politicians criticizing Erdoğan is making people happy, but direct help would stir up some shit between the Nationalists.

C) Well, you know how it is. In every revolution everyone agrees about one thing, the government must go. Then they fight about every other issue at hand. Turkey had a bloody history between Nationalists and Communists. The last thing I want is these two groups butchering each other again. At the moment it seems like they are standing together. The real tension is between Fundamentals and Secularists. There are religious people who are supporting the protest but real Fundamentals are mostly supporting AKP. The majority appears to be Communists/Socialists/Secularists but there are people from every ideology. I think the gap between these groups are not very long. Everyone agrees that AKP must go and this is bringing the people together.

D) I predict that Erdoğan will be killed/exiled/forced to resign. The hate against him is indefinable. A simple apology isn't going to cut it. A military coup isn't likely, because Erdoğan already imprisoned lots of outspoken generals. The army isn't doing more than showing silent support. What will come? I have no idea. I'm expecting CHP (centre-leftist Kemalist main opposition party) to take the helm, but anything can happen. I personally want free elections with the exclusion of AKP. I think the majority wants this. But there is no stated demands, everyone is simply protesting and expecting things to change.

E) Well, pretty much what I said while answering question D. I think the Fundamentalists will form a new party if AKP dissolves. The new party will be very unpopular because there are lots of people around here who loves to lick the ass of who is ruling the country. If CHP becomes the new big man, all tongues will be directed at them (hey, that rhymes). So I'm not expecting a heavily conservative party. This movement is for democracy, so I'm not expecting another dictator claiming the seat of PM. The question of "What happens after this?" is pretty much answered by "We'll think about it if things come to it".

Anyway, moving back to turkey.

Damn that face wound looks nasty, kinda says something about the police if they're doing things like that. As if they just dont really care at all about the lives of the protestors, although that's already been established with the various deaths..

So yeah, be careful.

As an aside, it is somewhat good to see solidarity (Am I even using it right) coming in from places, like Greece. I mean it should create pressure on the Turkish government, right?

Also over here in the east of england, we got coverage of it yesterday, from the bbc news channel so it not being frontpage on the website is somewhat weird.
Well, when they start headshotting civilians with gas canisters and opening craters on people's faces, one tends to steer clear of Turkish police.

The news of solidarity from other countries are giving people hope and courage. It's also apparently creating pressure on the Turkish government because some politicians said things like "This is affecting our image negatively."

actually, greece is the historical enemy of turkey, so whatever the greeks say will only strengthen the government's position in it's own eyes and the eyes of it's supporters, although it might lighten up the relations between the two countries once this government is deposed
Not at all. Greece are one of the most supportive countries when it comes to this movement. I love Greek people personally and their support makes me happy and giving people hope. There are racists everywhere acting like we are still fighting the Turkish War of Independence but racists exist everywhere. Don't mind them.

Erdogan has apparently decided that he's going to go ahead with demolishing the park again.

I told you so.

Also, have this extremely high quality animation to use if you need to explain the situation to somebody.
That animation was awesome. Everyone should watch it. There are lots of more stuff Erdoğan did but it still shows some of the most controversial ones. Erdoğan clearly sees himself as one of the emperors of Ottoman Empire. One thing he forgets is, Turkey was created from the ruins of Ottoman Empire after Turkish rebels started disagreeing with the direction Ottoman Empire was taking. What's more is, it's us who has the western support this time.

Thanks for the supportive comments everyone! I wish I could do more, but this is all I can do without worrying my family too much. One can only create so many lies about the slogans being screamed on the background while talking on the phone.

BTW, this channel is mostly active and even when it's not active it runs the most recent recordings. Beware of trolls when no moderator is present.
http://www.livestream.com/revoltistanbul

Keep following the link below. There are lots of interesting photos there.
http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 12:54:59 pm by Leatra »
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XXSockXX

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Re: Arab Spring springs to Turkey
« Reply #224 on: June 06, 2013, 02:10:40 pm »

There was also lots of foreigners around. I heard some foreigners arrested by the police, so it's not surprising. I'm sure government will say "they are agents" or something like that.
That's exactly what they are saying. Some 15 foreigners have been arrested, among them a german tourist. Reports on the others are a bit contradictory, some are EU exchange students, some had diplomatic passports from UK, France, USA and Greece. They found fireworks and gas canisters with them, so they are accused of being provocateurs.

They have a lot of interviews with Germans and german-speaking Turks in Istanbul in the media here, I even saw something about that makeshift library on TV yesterday. (There's clip about that at the bottom of this article, doesn't let me link directly to the clip and it's in german anyway...)

Violence seems to be shifting to rural areas and other cities, because there is too much international media attention on Istanbul now.

Some pics from supporters in Germany:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 02:22:52 pm by XXSockXX »
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