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Author Topic: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?  (Read 4947 times)

blue emu

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What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« on: May 25, 2013, 08:04:30 pm »

I'm just starting up my Steel and Leatherworking industries. What would be a good uniform to assign to my Military Dwarves?

I've got crap-loads of Iron ore, so I'm going to be using Iron Bolts for live-firing... probably Wooden bolts for practice (if the idiots will switch back and forth properly).

Assuming that I "replace clothing" instead of wearing the uniforms "over clothing", which pieces of gear will fit on a Dwarf without causing conflicts? Breastplate over chain mail shirt? Cloak and Hood over Leather cap and Steel Helmet?

What combinations should I avoid, to prevent a clothing log-jam?
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blue emu

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 08:30:15 pm »

How does this look?

1 Steel Helmet
6 Leather Hoods
1 Steel Breastplate
3 Steel Chain Mail Shirts
6 Leather Cloaks
1 set of Steel Gauntlets
1 set of Leather Mittens
1 set of Steel Greaves
2 sets of Leather Trousers
1 set of Steel High Boots
1 set of Leather Socks
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Sutremaine

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2013, 08:48:53 pm »

How does this look?
The armour alone will cut the average arena-generated no-skill dwarf's speed from 951 to 567, and 789 with Proficient Armour User (pick your military dwarves well, or dispense with the breastplate until later). Additionally, there's no proven benefit to wearing those extra two mail shirts. The same may go for the extra cloaks and hoods, though I don't know of any testing for that.

Socks or shoes with high boots will probably end up with the dwarves wearing only three out of four of those things, with the more important high boot being omitted. You can get the layers to play nicely by changing socks to be [COVER] layer. This will technically result in dwarves wearing their socks over their boots, but the in-game effect is negligible.
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Oaktree

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2013, 09:30:03 pm »

I basically go with three uniforms using "replace clothing".  Generally going for a basic clothing, then good metal coverage, and then covering clothing.

Melee Dwarf:
Cloth or Silk Hood, Helm (pref Steel), Leather Cloak, Breastplate, Chain Mail Shirt, Cloth Tunic, Cloth mittens, Metal Gauntlets, Metal Greaves, Cloth Trousers, Metal Boots (high or low, but don't mix them), Shield and Weapon.

Crossbow Dwarf:
Cloth or Silk Hood, Metal Helm, Leather Cloak, Chain Mail Shirt, Cloth Tunic, Cloth mittens, Metal Gauntlets, Metal Leggings, Cloth Trousers, Metal Boots, Shield and Crossbow.
Since marksdwarves operate from behind fortifications most of the time the main threat to them is enemy missile fire.  So they go with the maximum chain covering since currently bolts and arrow basically just penetrate plate metal (breastplate and greaves).

Cadre/Reservist:
Cloth or Silk Hood, Metal Cap (opt), Leather Cloak, Leather Armor, Cloth Tunic, Cloth Mittens, Cloth Gloves, Cloth Trousers, Leather Boots, Shield, and Weapon.

This is for reservists and outside workers so that they can get some protection and also can do some sparring and such while training.

I have not generally seen the extra layering of cloaks, mail shirts, etc. doing that much good in exchange for the extra weight.  Though I saw human leaders of goblin ambush squads wearing 2-3 chain mail shirts in a recent fort.  It didn't do them much good.
 
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 09:49:58 pm »

I'm just starting up my Steel and Leatherworking industries. What would be a good uniform to assign to my Military Dwarves?

...

Melee dwarves: Steel weapon, wooden shield. That's all you really need to start out. Dodging and shield use are the only things that will save them from enemy archers. Upgrade them with more & better quality armor as it becomes available.

Ranged dwarves: Wood/bone crossbow, any metal bolts. They won't switch back and forth between ammo fast enough to be useful in an on-call combat situation, so don't bother with training bolts. They don't need armor, because you'll keep them behind fortifications and the extra weight of armor slows them down, decreasing rate of fire. Just deploy them in large squads and defeat the enemy with a large volume of bolts.

thegoatgod_pan

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 10:13:29 pm »

3-5 wooden shields per dwarf does wonders. Especially useful for saving your dwarves from archers. Each shield blocks individually.
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joeclark77

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2013, 10:32:39 pm »

You said "for an early fortress" so I'm not going to assume you have a steel industry or lots of highly-skilled dwaves.  The way I would start out is, in this order: weapon, mail shirt, helm, shield (which could be wood or metal).  If you add leggings and boots (could be leather or metal) then you can "replace clothing" without any problem.  Gauntlets, breastplates, and greaves come later.

In fact, as soon as I have a substantial quantity of leather in one of my forts (usually the case by the time the second dwarf caravan is there), I set a leatherworker making leather armor, leather leggings, and leather high boots on repeat.  Each of those outfits can "replace clothing" and they never wear out, so it's a good outfit to give your archers or even civilians if you want less clothing-related hassles.
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Matoro

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 12:49:18 am »

I'd make just mail shirt, breastplate, helm, greaves, gauntlets and boots for every melee dwarf (so you don't need to use "replace clothing"). Colth/leather really doesen't matter much, it adds just minimal protection if you compare it to real armor.
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vanatteveldt

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2013, 03:26:45 am »

I'd make just mail shirt, breastplate, helm, greaves, gauntlets and boots for every melee dwarf (so you don't need to use "replace clothing"). Colth/leather really doesen't matter much, it adds just minimal protection if you compare it to real armor.

I've had problems with drafs not wearing their helmets (which is kinda important) when using uniform over clothing, presumably because they already had some head cover which blocked the helmet. So, although I'm kinda new here, I would advise creating a basic uniform containing one civilian and one military item per location, set to replace clothing.
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Xinael

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2013, 07:20:39 am »

Yes, caps have the SHAPED tag and only one SHAPED thing can be worn on a body part so they conflict with helms. It's really annoying, yes, and one of the major reasons people recommend using replace clothing. Nothing worse than a solider taking a spider bite to the head that he could've survived if he'd changed out of his cap.
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Hommit

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2013, 12:51:56 pm »

Hmm, is there a way to add my created uniforms to raws (or somewhere) permanently, so i dont have to recreate them every game?
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blue emu

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2013, 08:34:45 pm »

When composing a new uniform, with the "Replace Clothing" option... are the clothing/armor items put on in the same order specified in the uniform list? In other words... should I first list all the "Under" items, then all the "Armor" items, then all the "Over" items, and list the "Cover" items last? Will that prevent the Dwarves from trying to put their socks on over their High Boots?
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zenos14

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 06:09:22 am »

For an early fortress? A crossbow, quiver full of bolts, and a two level 3x3 fortification tower with stairs in the middle at the end of a 20 square path.

Works wonders
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Incantatar

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 06:19:36 am »

Has the crossbow material any significance? Probably for melee fighting but does it has influence on the ranged attack?
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MasterShizzle

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Re: What's a good military uniform for an early Fortress?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 10:14:36 am »

Has the crossbow material any significance? Probably for melee fighting but does it has influence on the ranged attack?
Material makes no difference in a ranged attack. All crossbows fire at the same speed and range regardless of what they're made of. Craftsmanship makes a difference, as higher-quality crossbows are more accurate than lower-quality ones, but they use a different skill to make depending on what they're made of. So if you have a Legendary Weaponsmith you should be making them out of metal instead of bone or wood, and vice versa if you have a Legendary Bowyer.
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