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[Vector]

Most feminist groups aren't advocacy groups for social policy either.  I promised self-identified MRAs being fuckwads, not social policy groups being fuckwads.

[Hár]

"Men going their own way" sounds like something entirely different than being concerned about rights. It sounds like separatism of a sort and a desire to not even share the same system with women. Crazy stuff. Again, you can find this stuff among jaded women on the internet, too...

[Vector]

So what is it with MRA's that make them such morally reprehensible fuckwads? Is there a good example somebody could point to?

And this is the question I responded to.

Look, you can compare the "manosphere" to the "feminist blogosphere" if you like--they're counterparts, if you think MRA is a counterpart to feminism.  Just go through, check percentages, and so on.  But I'm not going to trawl myself through that mess.

[Hár]

You are claiming these guys are men's rights activists, but looks like a bunch of butthurt internet personas without any actual political activity in the real world. Activists have political activity. Hence, activists. You give us internet grumblers and set them up as counterparts to real-life activists.

[Vector]

They call themselves "Men's Rights Activists."

Most of such fellows are internet-grumblers.  That is what I said.  The people who identify themselves specifically as MRAs, much like the people who identify themselves as "pick-up artists," fall within a particular mode.  I'm sorry that it disappoints you that they call themselves activists and yet are not.  It disappoints me, too.


I said that if you think MRA is the counterpart to feminism, the search term "manosphere" corresponds to "feminist blogosphere."  I am trying to prove the lack of equivalence.  Seems like I did a good job.

[DJ]

How would the reasonable people who fight injustices against men label themselves? MRA is the obvious choice, so I imagine it'd be a really wide umbrella that encompasses the all sorts of people. Or is MRA a monolithic formal organisation?

[Xantalos]

How would the reasonable people who fight injustices against men label themselves? MRA is the obvious choice, so I imagine it'd be a really wide umbrella that encompasses the all sorts of people. Or is MRA a monolithic formal organisation?

Menenists?

[Loud Whispers]

The "man is strong/rich/tough/do man's stuff" and "women are sensible/sweet/dependent/do woman's stuff" cliché is still present.

The man side of the cliche isn't that much better. A man is basically his job. That's fine and dandy if you're a lawyer or a doctor, but most people aren't.

It's more to do with income and class, universally, than gender. There are countries where professionals in esteem like doctors earn less annually than bus drivers, yet are still considered to be socially higher. Men aren't their jobs, but their are jobs which are more like lifestyles than jobs irrespective of gender: Medicine, law, justice, education and military are examples of these.
Traditionally a man is his class and his ability to support a family, whereas a woman is her class and her ability to raise a family.
In the modern world, a man is his class and his ability to support a family, whereas a woman is her class, her ability to raise her family or support it.
History has cared more about these things than gender for a long time. And how do you abolish this without abolishing the meritocracy?

[LordSlowpoke]

How would the reasonable people who fight injustices against men label themselves? MRA is the obvious choice, so I imagine it'd be a really wide umbrella that encompasses the all sorts of people. Or is MRA a monolithic formal organisation?

Menenists?

I've been trying to find a decent term to put the reasonable part of MRA to, and you just supplied it. For me, (contemporary) feminists are the genderflipped MRA equivalent while women's rights activists are to be respected. Of course, I concede that it is not the definition everyone uses, but it is also the one that makes due with my headaches.

[Loud Whispers]

Menenists?

If MRA's being the counterpart to feminists acquires them the title menenists, would it not make more sense if they were masculists? What with it not being womanism and all.

[Xantalos]

Menenists?

If MRA's being the counterpart to feminists acquires them the title menenists, would it not make more sense if they were masculists? What with it not being womanism and all.

That would make sense.
Although I kinda like the title 'womanists' and 'menenists', since [joke] everyone hates kids! [/joke]

[DWC]

How would the reasonable people who fight injustices against men label themselves? MRA is the obvious choice, so I imagine it'd be a really wide umbrella that encompasses the all sorts of people. Or is MRA a monolithic formal organisation?

Menenists?

The term is Masculism. So I suppose a synonym for MRA would be 'Masculist'. But you know how political types are with euphemisms and nomenclature, I'm not sure how many people call themselves that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinism

But yeah, while poking around the MRA forum it seemed pretty tame, there were a few bitter guys with bluntly sexist comments running around too, as I'm sure you'd find similarly obnoxious counter-points in feminist circles too, so I see Vector's point.

[Inarius]

People are prejudice about everything and are quick to make assumptions about other people. People like to categorize others and assume certain traits almost instantly and this basic mentality is what manifests into sexism and racism and all the other isms

It's exactly what i think. I found myself much more "sexism" anti women among women than in men. Women car be very very very rude against other women who try to "break the rule". Perhaps because this reminds them that...they haven't. Categorizing is simplifying, it's much more comfortable.

The man side of the cliche isn't that much better. A man is basically his job.

And true, too. But a woman is her children. If you -like me- don't want to have children, or if you have children but don't make them the center of your life, you will be categorized. Much more by women than by men (the "bad mother" cliché).
After some efforts, even if you looks like a woman, men will accept you. New people will always be confused. But some women will always reminds your "true nature" and their attacks can be much more perverse.

Therefore, a woman who is living in men world (finance, for me) will be (possibly, well...probably sometimes) seen as a sex object colleague, but nobody will try to push you out in your "limits", well, you are just like them, with a different body. Even from men who earns less or are lower in the hierarchy.

Whereas i have heard unbelievable things from some women because they more or less see me as an insult for "them", because I suppose they feel me like "you could have been here if you weren't so submissive".
Of course I am exaggerating, but not so much.

[Vector]

But yeah, while poking around the MRA forum it seemed pretty tame, there were a few bitter guys with bluntly sexist comments running around too, as I'm sure you'd find similarly obnoxious counter-points in feminist circles too, so I see Vector's point.

Yeah, the general discussion section is really quite awful, but that whole place used to be really flamingly sexist and racist about a year back.  So it's good if they've managed to clean up their acts a bit.

[Ogdibus]

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