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[Lenglon]

What a horrible way to try to find the murderer. They might as well sell gallery tickets to watch us tear each other apart. Who would design something so.... horrible?

Welp, it's RVS time.

Ranger: Here's a hypothedical for you, It's Day 2, you're a cop. Night 1 you investigated the person who, sadly, turned out to be that night's casualty. someone else has just claimed cop, and is saying that one of the other players is town. do you claim? if not, who do you investigate the following night?

Griffons: What is the relationship between you two?

Cheesecake: another hypothedical. It's Day 2, you're mafia. you did the NightKill on Night 1, someone has just claimed Watcher (a power role that lets you see who visited someone else, and who they were visited by, but not what was done). they say they saw you visit the person you NightKilled that night. They also claim that one of the townies visited you. the townie has not responded, but they said ahead of time they would be busy for the next two days IRL. what role do you fakeclaim?

Demdemeh:hypothedical number three. it is 5-man-LYLO. you're mafia A. townie B is voting for mafia C. Townie D is voting mafia C. Townie E is voting townie B. mafia C is voting townie B. there are no hammers. the case on mafia C is a strong one. the case on townie B is moderate, but not weak. do you bus mafia C or vote townie B?

Shinigami:what do you think the odds are of a non-scum IC reaching MYLO or LYLO without being NK'd?

Vector:your hypothedical is the same as Cheesecake's, but with a slight twist. first off, you're a mafia godfather, not a normal mafia, secondly, the townie who visited you is not afk, but has instead refused to claim and isn't giving an explanation why. what role do you claim?

Captain: final hypothedical. you are mafia. it is night 1. on day 1 a bandwagon was forming on a townie. they claimed cop. do you NK the claimed cop or someone else? if someone else, the following day the cop claims to have investigated a random townie and found them clean. do you fakeclaim jailer?

Lenglon- You are now officially scum  Your intelligence is a great asset. Who will you use it in this RVS?

Haha, ok, um, presupposing I were scum, I'd try to act as much like I would as town as possible. Any differences would be scumtells. I might even flat refuse to open the scumchat, simply because if having the scumchat changed my gameplay then that would be a scumtell.

Lenglon: Which IC would you be afraid of if they were scum? Why?

Either one. sadly I dont know enough about them to say which one is scarier. I really dont want a repeat of last BM though.

[Griffionday]

Ranger:
Wouldn't there be three people who I haven't inspected?  Because one person will die in the night, and there need to be four people alive for there to be mylo.  The situation you're creating actually requires this as well, because (as there is no godfather in this setup) an inspect will positively identify one, and therefor negatively identify the other.

Anyway, I would probably inspect the aggressive but stubborn one (out of three posible ones).  I have a hard time identifying those traits as anything other than scummy; so an inspect will help me avoid a miss-lynch.

Shinigami:
Press the hell out of the IC, as it's safe to assume the IC will press the scummy player.

Ranger and Lenglon:
There are critical differences in how griffinpup and I (Griffionday) spell our names...  So his relation to me is currently indeterminate.  He's new and has yet to post, but he's eager and seems like he'll be a good player to have in the game.

RVS:
Ford:  You seemed to accept the changed role list without any fuss, so I'm assuming you think that it will re-balance the game toward town.  Can you comment on how the lack of an doctor will effect the game?
Vector:  I feel part of the problem I had pressing you last game was tied to you being gone most of the time and not wanting to cause you overmuch more work (I'm very familiar with the pressure school can exert); and truthfully I considered you to be a bit of a flight risk.  How would you advise dealing with these emotions in the future?
Ranger:  Hypothetical: you are the jailkeeper, and you are considering targeting a player.  You consider him to be scummy (about even with, maybe a little more than your other targets), but he's been tunneling one player which has made you suspicious that he's the cop.  How do you act?
Shinigami: (How do you like your name shortened?) I don't believe I've played a game with you before... What do you consider to be the ideal form of scum hunting?  As in: what methods do you think will give you the clearest read on whether someone is scum or not?
Demdemeh:  You were fairly quiet for the pre-game, and you've not been very active in the sub-forum (to the best of my knowledge).  What about the game interests you?  Do you think that playing as scum or town provides the more exciting challenge?
Lenglon: So... 5 (out of 7) questions that pertain to how to play as mafia... Something on your mind?
Cheesecake:  Whom of the more experienced players (in the forum in general) do you look up to and plan on emulating?
griffinpup:  GLEE! Another person who likes griffins!  What did you think when you noticed we have similar names?

[Lenglon]

Lenglon: So... 5 (out of 7) questions that pertain to how to play as mafia... Something on your mind?

Yeah, I was frustrated that last BM I wasn't able to use WIFOM properly. I want to try to get into people's heads and figure out where they'd jump when and why. as before I dont plan on sharing anything WIFOM based until i can form it into something solid... and hopefully more accurate than I was last time.

[Lenglon]

Griffionday: lemmie give you another hypothedical. It is 6-man MYLO, early in the day. You are vig. someone just claimed vig, claimed your kill(s), and is leading a bandwagon against you. there are no hammers. do you claim?

[Vector]

(Tiruin: kudos for flavor!)

Good morning, my young fellows and as-yet undiscovered fellowettes.  I will, for at least the first part of this game, not be using an IC voice, because I think it's necessary that you learn to think through the full import of folks' statements.  At the same time, I also promise that I will put your education above my own hubris, and play as clearly and transparently as possible.

Vector: Same question as Ford.

Whoever's feeling the best-rested and most bored.

Actually, maybe you?  Out of all of the players I've encountered here, you're the one who seems to have the least qualms about lying.

Shinigami:
Press the hell out of the IC, as it's safe to assume the IC will press the scummy player.

No, it isn't.  The IC has a responsibility to teach you how to play, and that doesn't always mean leading by example and doing the dirty work.

(However, I am going to try to personally hold off on my habit of acting intentionally scummy in this game, so you are right that there are some boundaries)

Vector:  I feel part of the problem I had pressing you last game was tied to you being gone most of the time and not wanting to cause you overmuch more work (I'm very familiar with the pressure school can exert); and truthfully I considered you to be a bit of a flight risk.  How would you advise dealing with these emotions in the future?

I think that usually depends on the player.  To be honest, it's appropriate to just ask, very blatantly and openly.  There's usually an honor among thieves in this game, an unwritten understanding that you won't say "I am having psychological problems" in order to get out of being pressured as scum when you're really doing just fine.  So, trust people until they give you a reason not to.

The other thing is that if I've remained in the game, then that means that I'm ready and willing to play.  If you'd tried to pressure me into doing a full reread, I would have eaten you alive (town OR scum).  If you'd just decided to ask me questions about my opinions on the proceedings, I would have been fine with it.  If a person isn't going to do at least that much, then they should be replaced, anyway.

So, I would say: assume that the other person isn't lying about their problems, but also that they can take care of themselves, and that they're in the game for a reason.  And then play, with the understanding that if you cross a line, you'll be warned and you can back off from it.  You need to work on developing your confidence.

Griffionday- It is Mylo, you have two suspects and one person you trust. You have less information on the one who is an IC and more scumtells on the non IC. What actions do you take? (Yes I am using the same situation I was in in my last game)
Griffinpup- who do you see as a formidable adversary? Why? (This is based off of RVS Q&A and pregame comments so there isn't much to go on.)

Don't use this sort of qualification of your statements.  Defending yourself before anyone has attacked you makes you look nervous and worried; it takes out the tooth, which is what you're going to use to scare your opponents into telling you what you need to know.

Remember, when someone attacks you, or doesn't attack you, you get information from them.  Above anything else this is a game of information acquisition and dispersal.  So play openly and aggressively, but don't give away all your secrets too soon.

Cheesecake: another hypothedical. It's Day 2, you're mafia. you did the NightKill on Night 1, someone has just claimed Watcher (a power role that lets you see who visited someone else, and who they were visited by, but not what was done). they say they saw you visit the person you NightKilled that night. They also claim that one of the townies visited you. the townie has not responded, but they said ahead of time they would be busy for the next two days IRL. what role do you fakeclaim?

[...]

Vector:your hypothedical is the same as Cheesecake's, but with a slight twist. first off, you're a mafia godfather, not a normal mafia, secondly, the townie who visited you is not afk, but has instead refused to claim and isn't giving an explanation why. what role do you claim?

They've refused to claim, which means that they have some sort of sensitive power role (usually, unless they're a pathological liar like Cado ).  Eh... if I'm in a low-power-role setup like this one and they're not claiming, it means that they don't know my alignment or what I did, so they're likely the doctor or something similar.  If I was seen killing my target then that means I'm probably going to have to throw myself under the bus, so if I'm not playing with an advanced group I'll probably counter-claim watcher and try to rally the town to get the other guy killed, assuming I'll be dead by the end of the night anyway; I'd have a target or two I'd try to make the town think of as my scumbuddy.  Then I'd NK the townie who refused to claim and leave the rest of the game to my partners.

Otherwise I'd claim that I'm a bus driver and that I swapped the dude and my scumbuddy.

Lenglon- You are now officially scum  Your intelligence is a great asset. Who will you use it in this RVS?

Haha, ok, um, presupposing I were scum, I'd try to act as much like I would as town as possible. Any differences would be scumtells. I might even flat refuse to open the scumchat, simply because if having the scumchat changed my gameplay then that would be a scumtell.

Lenglon, why aren't you answering his question?  You sound awfully nervous, my dear squidling, my best beloved.  Why, you're even typing out your nervous laughter!  And then there's this...

Yeah, I was frustrated that last BM I wasn't able to use WIFOM properly. I want to try to get into people's heads and figure out where they'd jump when and why. as before I dont plan on sharing anything WIFOM based until i can form it into something solid... and hopefully more accurate than I was last time.

Why aren't you focused on this BM?

[Lenglon]

Lenglon, why aren't you answering his question?  You sound awfully nervous, my dear squidling, my best beloved.  Why, you're even typing out your nervous laughter!  And then there's this...

did you notice the emoticon? he was funning, referencing last BM. I wanted my answer to be in a similarly light-hearted tone. the reason I didn't answer his question directly is quite frankly, this early in the game all someone can do is act on basic general principals, if he'd given me a more complicated situation I'd give a longer answer. Unless you're asking for me to provide a ranked target list and gameplan for the entire mafia game? i'd be willing to do this, but for my sanity, please name a hypothedical scumbuddy for me, and tell me which one of us is supposedly the role cop. I'm to lazy to bother writeing out a giant GRAND MASTER PLAN for every single possible combination, and anything that far-reaching would require customization to the specific situation.

Yeah, I was frustrated that last BM I wasn't able to use WIFOM properly. I want to try to get into people's heads and figure out where they'd jump when and why. as before I dont plan on sharing anything WIFOM based until i can form it into something solid... and hopefully more accurate than I was last time.

Why aren't you focused on this BM?

I want to learn from my mistakes. What's wrong with trying to improve? It should be obvious that i'm focused on the current game.

oh, and what's a squidling? the mental image i'm getting is some kind of aquatic zergling, but you might be talking about baby squid or something else.

[Lenglon]

Vector: here's your next hypothedical: it is 3-man LYLO, you're Serial Killer. there were 2 Night Kills last night. nobody has claimed yet. do you claim vig?

[Shinigami_King]

On a break, so this will be short.
Sorry for missing you two wonderful IC's~~
Both of you get the same question. In the last BM, Deathsword utilised his IC voice in order to change our perspective of who was scum in multiple places. Was he in the wrong or the right. How so? Vector, you answered before I could ask but Ford, how will you use your IC voice.

Don't use this sort of qualification of your statements.  Defending yourself before anyone has attacked you makes you look nervous and worried; it takes out the tooth, which is what you're going to use to scare your opponents into telling you what you need to know.

I have been told to state "Why" and list my resoning even before being asked. This way people can see that I'm being blatant, blunt and I have nothing to hide.

Shinigami: (How do you like your name shortened?) I don't believe I've played a game with you before... What do you consider to be the ideal form of scum hunting?  As in: what methods do you think will give you the clearest read on whether someone is scum or not?

Shinigami is fine thank you. I guess if you're in a rush you could say something like "Shini" or "SK" but shinigami is preferred. A strong scumhunting meathod is not what I use good sir/ma'am. Not exactly at  least. I personally prefer WIFOM despite the poor taste it leaves in some peoples mouths. I like psychology to put it simply.
More RVS questions soon

[Vector]

I'm willing to bet that Shinigami_King is your scumbuddy (or one of the folks who hasn't yet posted), and a squidling is a little squid.  A proto-squid, if you will.

did you notice the emoticon? he was funning, referencing last BM. I wanted my answer to be in a similarly light-hearted tone. the reason I didn't answer his question directly is quite frankly, this early in the game all someone can do is act on basic general principals, if he'd given me a more complicated situation I'd give a longer answer. Unless you're asking for me to provide a ranked target list and gameplan for the entire mafia game? i'd be willing to do this, but for my sanity, please name a hypothedical scumbuddy for me, and tell me which one of us is supposedly the role cop. I'm to lazy to bother writeing out a giant GRAND MASTER PLAN for every single possible combination, and anything that far-reaching would require customization to the specific situation.

First of all, light-hearted is not the same thing as nervous.

Second of all, "who will you use your intellect on in RVS" is not the same thing as "give me a ranked target list and gameplan for the entire game."  Don't blow things out of proportion.  You're being jumpy and overreactive over a question-dodge, and that's not good.

Third of all, does my answer to your RVS question do anything helpful for you?  You've said you're trying to learn how people will react to things.  What have you learned from me?

I want to learn from my mistakes. What's wrong with trying to improve? It should be obvious that i'm focused on the current game.

It's not bad that you're trying to improve.  It's unusual that you say it's obvious you're focused on the current game, and that your focus entails learning how to play scum better.

But if it were obvious, then I wouldn't be asking you questions, would I.

Vector: here's your next hypothedical: it is 3-man LYLO, you're Serial Killer. there were 2 Night Kills last night. nobody has claimed yet. do you claim vig?

Uh, maybe?  It sort of depends on whether or not my kill went through or not, how many scum are left, what I know about the people playing, and so on.

[Griffionday]

Tiruin:

(Tiruin: kudos for flavor!)

Agreed, I love the story you're weaving here, was it created unique for this (and the previous) game?  It's really brilliant and obviously well thought out.


Vector:

Good morning, my young fellows and as-yet undiscovered fellowettes.  I will, for at least the first part of this game, not be using an IC voice, because I think it's necessary that you learn to think through the full import of folks' statements.  At the same time, I also promise that I will put your education above my own hubris, and play as clearly and transparently as possible.

And I think I'm going to love you as an IC.  I respect this attitude toward improving the quality of our play a lot.

Vector:  I feel part of the problem I had pressing you last game was tied to you being gone most of the time and not wanting to cause you overmuch more work (I'm very familiar with the pressure school can exert); and truthfully I considered you to be a bit of a flight risk.  How would you advise dealing with these emotions in the future?

I think that usually depends on the player.  To be honest, it's appropriate to just ask, very blatantly and openly.  There's usually an honor among thieves in this game, an unwritten understanding that you won't say "I am having psychological problems" in order to get out of being pressured as scum when you're really doing just fine.  So, trust people until they give you a reason not to.

The other thing is that if I've remained in the game, then that means that I'm ready and willing to play.  If you'd tried to pressure me into doing a full reread, I would have eaten you alive (town OR scum).  If you'd just decided to ask me questions about my opinions on the proceedings, I would have been fine with it.  If a person isn't going to do at least that much, then they should be replaced, anyway.

So, I would say: assume that the other person isn't lying about their problems, but also that they can take care of themselves, and that they're in the game for a reason.  And then play, with the understanding that if you cross a line, you'll be warned and you can back off from it.  You need to work on developing your confidence.

Okay.  I guess that's pretty much what I thought after seeing that you were the scum; I was surprised but realized that I had dropped the ball by not pressing you on your reads and lack there of.  It was during the game though that I was considering that you would be more likely to stick around as town (a lower stress role) than as scum; and then went to build a read on you off that.  I'll try to work on my confidence more, as that seems to be the defining weakness I currently posses (I got argued into two miss-lynches in that game, one from when I was targeting scum, the other, future scum).


Lenglon:

Griffionday: lemmie give you another hypothedical. It is 6-man MYLO, early in the day. You are vig. someone just claimed vig, claimed your kill(s), and is leading a bandwagon against you. there are no hammers. do you claim?

If it's early in the day with no hammers, I'd say probably not.  A much more productive use of my time would be to press him on precisely what his reads on the people he "killed" where.  There will likely be discrepancies on who he seemed to be reading as most likely scum and who he nked (especially if I was successful in any of my targets), meaning I should draw town's attention to that rather than muddying things by counter-claiming.

Lenglon: So... 5 (out of 7) questions that pertain to how to play as mafia... Something on your mind?

Yeah, I was frustrated that last BM I wasn't able to use WIFOM properly. I want to try to get into people's heads and figure out where they'd jump when and why. as before I dont plan on sharing anything WIFOM based until i can form it into something solid... and hopefully more accurate than I was last time.

The problem with WIFOM is that you lose the information that might be there in a feedback-loop; WIFOM itself cannot by it's nature be used to your advantage, except to aid in distilling a reasonable amount of doubt so you don't tunnel people without any critical thought.  I think the goal you should be working toward is ignoring the WIFOM altogether (that is, the feedback) and figuring out what the actual signal you're getting is.

Lenglon- You are now officially scum  Your intelligence is a great asset. Who will you use it in this RVS?

Haha, ok, um, presupposing I were scum, I'd try to act as much like I would as town as possible. Any differences would be scumtells. I might even flat refuse to open the scumchat, simply because if having the scumchat changed my gameplay then that would be a scumtell.

That's an unusually long and convoluted answer to a question that boils down to "How do you plan on being intelligent this game?"  You also seem to be obsessed with playing as town as apposed to hunting scum...

PPE:

The reason I didn't answer his question directly is quite frankly, this early in the game all someone can do is act on basic general principals, if he'd given me a more complicated situation I'd give a longer answer.

It's spelt "hypothetical".  And you're still over-answering his question; not, as you seem to think, under-answering it.  You also missed that his actual question was based solely around RVS play, and you answered a question about play in general.


Shinigami:

Sorry for missing you two wonderful IC's

Two IC's... but only one has posted yet... I'm confused.

I have been told to state "Why" and list my resoning even before being asked. This way people can see that I'm being blatant, blunt and I have nothing to hide.

But you do have stuff to hide as town.  Part of getting a read on people is seeing how they react to your statements, ideally you want to make statements that have obvious (to you) ways town should naturally react and different ways that scum should react naturally to.  By listing things up front you take away this critical ambiguity and hurt your hunting in the long run.

A strong scumhunting meathod is not what I use good sir/ma'am. Not exactly at  least. I personally prefer WIFOM despite the poor taste it leaves in some peoples mouths. I like psychology to put it simply.

It's "Sir" if you must be formal.

I think you don't understand what WIFOM means.  It's not circumstantial evidence or even getting into other people's minds, it's when you attempt to do that but fail and fall into a loop.  Enjoying trying to get into peoples minds is fine and critical for the proper enjoyment of the game; however, that is a strong scum-hunting method, and what all other ways of finding scum boil down to.


ICs:
Can we get your definitions of WIFOM so we're all on the same page when discussing that term?

[Vector]

Both of you get the same question. In the last BM, Deathsword utilised his IC voice in order to change our perspective of who was scum in multiple places. Was he in the wrong or the right. How so?

I haven't played that game, so I can't speak in full to that particular situation.  However, we agree when we sign up to be ICs that we're going to act in the best interest of the beginners.  In other words, we already state that it is our obligation not to be misleading about good play.  Taking an IC voice on top of that just muddies and confuses the situation.

Consider this, for example--if someone clarifies good play outside of their IC voice, then you as good as know that they're lying scum; either that, or they have to start intentionally muddying the line, and then what's the point of the IC voice?  This is not only bad for any IC who might be scum, but also really terrible for everyone who is learning to pick up on the wrong signals.

Therefore I'd say that Deathsword was in the wrong, chiefly because there should be no argument about someone's scumminess, or about the right way to play this game, which is passed off as objective fact.  I am certainly pretty good at Mafia, but I can't say that I know everything about it.  I have a way that works for me, and that's all.

I have been told to state "Why" and list my resoning even before being asked. This way people can see that I'm being blatant, blunt and I have nothing to hide.

Not for questions.  If you want to play a psychological style, then play psychologically.  Hunt the scumteam and scare the crap out of them!  Do you honestly think you're going to make anyone worried about your line of questions if you're completely clear about how they're supposed to react, and that you're not interested in killing anyone, and that you're playing defensively from the get-go?

What do you consider to be the ideal form of scum hunting?  As in: what methods do you think will give you the clearest read on whether someone is scum or not?

A strong scumhunting meathod is not what I use good sir/ma'am. Not exactly at  least. I personally prefer WIFOM despite the poor taste it leaves in some peoples mouths. I like psychology to put it simply.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

How exactly is this pro-town, and how will it help you get a clear read?

Also, I had trouble tracking down the original question because you didn't keep the link in the quote head, so please change that for next time.  It's important to know to whom you are responding, as well.

[griffinpup]

After watching this thread with almost childlike impatience, when it actually starts I'm at church.  Of course. 

Anyways, answer question time.

Griffinpup- who do you see as a formidable adversary? Why? (This is based off of RVS Q&A and pregame comments so there isn't much to go on.)

Well... I have to say Vector right now.  Not only is she a woman, (scary in its own right) she also is a VERY sneaky scum.  At least in the games i've read with her in it.
She, if she is scum, will be very difficult.

Griffon(griffonpup): What would your preferred role be as Town? How about mafia?

I would prefer jailkeeper in Town for the increased versatility.  The ability to be a doctor, and block roles is pretty useful.  As mafia, godfather would be my pick.  (at least I think it's called godfather.  The one that makes you look town.)  I would like that because it lets you get cleared by the cop, which means you don't have to kill him as early.  LET HIM SPREAD HIS LIES!!! I WILL REIGN VICTORIOUS! This is kinda the attitude I have in that situation.

Griffons: What is the relationship between you two?

*Griffin, in my case, by the way.  While my name Griffin Pup implies that I would be younger then Griffion, if you compare join dates it shows that I actually joined first.  Not only that, but I average .065 posts a day. lol.  I joined almost last year, and have recently become active again.  Griffion Day also addressed this, and I agree with what he said.  I am quite eager.

griffinpup:  GLEE! Another person who likes griffins!  What did you think when you noticed we have similar names?

I briefly considered changing my username for that express reason, hoping to avoid confusion.  I just couldn't bring myself to get rid of griffinpup though.  I've had it with me since I was eight. (*Sentimental Tears).  The first time I ever saw your username I hoped that you wouldn't be in my first Mafia game to avoid confusion.  We can see how that turned out
I do look forward to interacting with you in this game and later.  I'm assuming that since you like griffins, you are naturally more intelligent then the average person, so don't prove me wrong.   

Ranger-Cado-  What's your point of view on first day lynches?  Do most first day lynches gain nothing?  What process do you go about finding someone to lynch?
Griffionday-  What are your qualms about lynching a lurker purely because he is a lurker?  Is that only OK when there's no one else particularly scummy?  Or do you lynch All Lurkers?
Lenglon-  You are scum, and you have two NK candidates in mind.  One is an active and good IC, who is currently starting to suspect you.  The other is already at your throat, but didn't manage to get you lynched the day before.  He also isn't very good at forming persuasive arguments, hence you not getting lynched.  Who do you NK?
Cheesecake-  If it was Lynch or Lose, and you and your scum partner were both still alive, what do you think about the option of claiming doctor?  Cop?
Demdemeh-  If you were a jail keeper would you generally try to block the mafia power roles, save your Team power roles, (making their roles worthless), or save normal Townies?  I realize this would always depend on the situation you are in at the moment, but I'd like your general thoughts on the matter.
Shinigami_King- What the most implicating scumtell there is?
Vector-  Given the fact that you won't be using IC voice, we can't trust any of your suggestions without thorough examination.  Would the whole purpose behind you not using IC voice be to make us think?
Captain Ford-  I'm running out of questions.  What questions do you prefer at this stage?  How reliable are the reads that you get from people at this point?

GAAAA!!! Six new posts! just a sec.

[Vector]

Okay.  I guess that's pretty much what I thought after seeing that you were the scum; I was surprised but realized that I had dropped the ball by not pressing you on your reads and lack there of.  It was during the game though that I was considering that you would be more likely to stick around as town (a lower stress role) than as scum; and then went to build a read on you off that.  I'll try to work on my confidence more, as that seems to be the defining weakness I currently posses (I got argued into two miss-lynches in that game, one from when I was targeting scum, the other, future scum).

Exactly.  If you were surprised, then what that means is that I was playing well; but if you were surprised and hadn't even pressed me, that also indicates some weakness on your part.

I'm going to reveal something, actually: I've spent so much time lying about doing things on purpose, as scum and as town (in the former case defensively, in the latter offensively), that people get the impression that everything I do is very carefully orchestrated and talented.  Not so.  I throw what I can at the wall and see what sticks, and nearly always say that the result was my intention.  Of course, I usually also find a way to use whatever I get, no matter what it is, so it's not exactly a bad habit.  Just, perhaps, an unusual one.

So, that said: don't assume someone's alignment must be something in particular just because they're tired and "they couldn't play their usual game."  If their usual game is of a certain quality, then often they can drop the quality a bit and still have enough technique to pull them through, even if they'd rather do something full of panache than something rough-and-ready.  I personally find playing both roles similarly intensive and stressful.

Can we get your definitions of WIFOM so we're all on the same page when discussing that term?

I like the definition in the OP, myself.  It's better than anything I can personally come up with.

Vector-  Given the fact that you won't be using IC voice, we can't trust any of your suggestions without thorough examination.  Would the whole purpose behind you not using IC voice be to make us think?

Well, yes, but please see the post I made to Shinigami_King's questions on the matter for more details =)  The gist of it is that I don't think IC voice even holds up under analysis.

[griffinpup]

Vector-  Given the fact that you won't be using IC voice, we can't trust any of your suggestions without thorough examination.  Would the whole purpose behind you not using IC voice be to make us think?

Well, yes, but please see the post I made to Shinigami_King's questions on the matter for more details =)  The gist of it is that I don't think IC voice even holds up under analysis.

Ya...  Posted that question before I saw your reply.

[Lenglon]

Second of all, "who will you use your intellect on in RVS" is not the same thing as "give me a ranked target list and gameplan for the entire game."  Don't blow things out of proportion.  You're being jumpy and overreactive over a question-dodge, and that's not good.

I dont understand this part, could you please explain?

Third of all, does my answer to your RVS question do anything helpful for you?  You've said you're trying to learn how people will react to things.  What have you learned from me?

I dont have enough evidence to be sure, but the response you gave me is at Tier 2 in WIFOM. you are reacting to your opponent's thoughts, but not assuming they are reacting to yours. for you, I would place the poison in the cup nearest me. but right now I dont have enough data to be sure.

It's not bad that you're trying to improve.  It's unusual that you say it's obvious you're focused on the current game, and that your focus entails learning how to play scum better.
But if it were obvious, then I wouldn't be asking you questions, would I.

You're misreading me, all the situations i've described are WIFOM based to some degree. I'm trying to get a baseline idea for how the people around me think. still, considering how unsuccessful it was last game, you're right, it's time for a new (old) tactic.

Lenglon-  You are scum, and you have two NK candidates in mind.  One is an active and good IC, who is currently starting to suspect you.  The other is already at your throat, but didn't manage to get you lynched the day before.  He also isn't very good at forming persuasive arguments, hence you not getting lynched.  Who do you NK?

NK the one that is only starting to suspect me, the other one has done all the damage they can do.
Vector: Why aren't you asking any RVS questions... at all? don't you want to get a read on the other players?

I have been told to state "Why" and list my resoning even before being asked. This way people can see that I'm being blatant, blunt and I have nothing to hide.

Not for questions.  If you want to play a psychological style, then play psychologically.  Hunt the scumteam and scare the crap out of them!  Do you honestly think you're going to make anyone worried about your line of questions if you're completely clear about how they're supposed to react, and that you're not interested in killing anyone, and that you're playing defensively from the get-go?

isn't it the most defensive form of questioning to, as Deathsword did in the game mentioned, not ask questions?