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[KroganElite]

How does one accomplish this? I always get water with a dusting of mud and the water always freezes and destroys my wells. I can fix it destroying the wells part, but why is it freezing? The well is above ground but I walled it off and placed a roof over it(floor 1z-level up). No other tiles of water are freezing, just the water tile under the well and another water tile under that. I have also replaced the floors of my reservoir with stone and built walls around it.

Here is my current failed attempt so you get a better picture:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is a fortification+floodgate by the river so it doesn't freeze that way.

I tried looking through the wiki as I usually do, but I couldn't find any information on exactly how to make a proper one.

[Ashery]

How does one accomplish this? I always get water with a dusting of mud and the water always freezes and destroys my wells. I can fix it destroying the wells part, but why is it freezing? The well is above ground but I walled it off and placed a roof over it(floor 1z-level up).

Once a tile is "exposed" to light, it's permanent. Some players exploit this behavior to farm above ground crops that are, in our reality, actually indoors (Remove the roof and then put in a constructed one).

[KroganElite]

Ok, but how do I actually make one that isn't exposed to light? Does this mean that surface level wells will never work? Can I just dig another layer down and that won't freeze? And how do I deal with "a dusting of mud" ? I keep getting infections because of it.

[Ashery]

Does this mean that surface level wells will never work?

Correct. The well needs to be underneath a natural* roof that's always existed (An obsidian cast would provide a natural roof, but not one that's always existed).

*The natural part is actually superfluous as any roof that "has always existed" would imply natural.**

**But that's also irrelevant as "has always existed" is the only part that matters. People just often say that there needs to be a natural roof for water to not freeze, but an obsidian cast would be the example that's natural but doesn't prevent freezing.

Can I just dig another layer down and that won't freeze?

So long as the above condition is satisfied, it shouldn't freeze.

And how do I deal with "a dusting of mud" ? I keep getting infections because of it.

It's been a long time since I've built an actual well, but from what I recall, there needs to be two z-tiles worth of water below the well for there not to be a dusting of mud in the fetched water. I could easily be mistaken there, though.

[slothen]

pretty much dig a deeper well.  Excuse my crappy diagram skills.  Hopefully you get the idea.


_____Outside____________          ___________
                                |  _d_|Brook|
       Soil                    | |
                               |  |
_________________ |  |
Well room                 |  |
______   ________   |  |
|                 __x_  g|_|  |
|      cistern  |      |____|
|_________ |     

d = door/floodgate to cut off system from brook when necessary.
x = where to put the horizontal diagonal bend so the water does rise into the well room.  (this is a side view)
Use staircases for the main vertical shaft if you want.
g = floor grate here to keep swimming invaders out, otherwise you can just make it L bend right into the x, instead of going down then up again.

With a design like this you can leave the the first floodgate open all the time, the well will be refilled every time the brook isn't frozen, and you have more than enough water to never have to scrape the mud off the bottom.

[Starver]

FYI, I usually work with some variant of the following side-plan...

fakeedit: slightly ninjaed by slothen, whose briefer picture is probably more specific to your situation...  diagonals, or timely operation of floodgates, is very important in order to avoid flooding when sourcing water from higher levels than you're tapping it off, though...  Do watch out for that.  If in doubt, put doors on the entryway(s) to the "well room" so that you can limit flooding to there until you've undone any initial problems you inadvertently encounter...



Water comes from any source you want/can get...
(I usually tap into Cavern pools from the side, once I've found a suitable spot to do so with)
 |
 v

#####
#W_<_ <- Underground dwarf access to well
# #X# <- stairway down to 'reservoir' level
??≈F≈≈># <- water level, with a floodgate (for creature access control)
########

To dig any height of well, I tend to stack channel-designations, vertically (without any side connection), meaning that a digger will channel the spot he or she stands on (except maybe for the top layer, before there's a first channel to go into to reach the second) and fall (generally harmlessly) 1Z down in each attempt, until reaching the intended bottom of the well (or the last level before breaking through into caverns, if going in from the top, which needs to be dug from a side-access, to be safe, and then a hatch put in to close off in case of flyers, before sealing this last side tunnel as well)...  then they either dig their own escape-tunnel to the side and up, or make use of one that another digger has been making simultaneously.

An alternate method is to make a stairwell immediately adjacent to the intended well-shaft, and then set the well-shaft channels to be dug from safety of standing on the stairwell.  Either way, I tend to plonk a hatch on top of the stairwell, just in case I need to discourage any of my dwarves to wander down the stairs, or block anything nasty that's in the well (perhaps with the fortification-flow bug) from getting out that way...  You could floor over it, but you might anticipate someone being shoved down the well by a tantrumming fellow, and want to give them an immediate chance to get out (assuming they can swim).

An alternate-alternate method is to make the well-shaft a stairwell-shaft at first but then (after ensuring there's another exit, perhaps from the side and ready to be walled up again, or perhaps a secondary escape-stairwell), progressively (i.e. sequentially) channel away the stairs from the top on down to 'open it up', enough to let any bucket pass down.  But I consider that method messy, so rarely use that.

Top-plan view of water-tapping operation (on Z-level of the water I want to tap)

Water
≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈####### <- find a handy 'step' in the water's edge
≈≈≈########
≈≈≈########
≈≈≈########
    Rock (undug)




≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈##,#,#,# zig-zag path dug, almost to a diagonal 'step' in water's edge
≈≈≈#,,,#,#, (red bit of rock is next in line, but would breach water)
≈≈≈########  Green bit of rough floor is also dug out, to allow next step.
≈≈≈########

≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈##,#,#,#
≈≈≈#XO,#,#, Put a floodgate in on the last bit of tunnel
≈≈≈######## Attach to a lever and pull to open
≈≈≈######## Put a temporary wall (green) in to restore the zig-zag
 (wall can be placed as soon as dwarf has attached first mechanism to floodgate,
  even before second mechanism is attached to the assigned lever.)


Smooth (at least) the red "breakthrough" tile (although I tend to smooth everything that will be my aquacourse's walls/floor)

≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈╔══════
≈≈≈╔╝+#+#+#
≈≈≈║XO+#+#+
≈≈≈╚═╩═════
≈≈≈########


≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈╔══════
≈≈≈╬╝+#+#+#  Set the red 'breakthroug' tile to be carved to fortification
≈≈≈║XO+#+#+  (the floodgate tile will be 'open', of course, but I've left the 'X' here anyway
≈≈≈╚═╩═════
≈≈≈########

While the engraving dwarf is making the fortification, set the floodgate lever to be pulled again...
It will not close while the dwarf is in the way, but (as long as not delayed), as soon as the fortification is made and the dwarf wanders away from the wall it'll close, meaning only a little water will leak through

≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈╔══════
≈≈≈╬╝5#1#+# (showing not atypical water-levels for the zig-zag, temporarily,
≈≈≈║XO3#+#+  as if you have "display as numbers" on to show 7ths of fullness...)
≈≈≈╚═╩═════
≈≈≈########

≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈╔══════
≈≈≈╬╝1+1+1+ Dig further walls (and temporary one)
≈≈≈║X+1+1++  and optional smooth...
≈≈≈╚═══════
≈≈≈########

≈≈≈≈#######
≈≈≈≈╔══════
≈≈≈╬╝776777 Dig further walls (and temporary one)
≈≈≈║X777767  then when everyone's clear, open the floodgate again...
≈≈≈╚═══════   I like to get it filled to 7/7ths globally, then shut the floodgate, but that might not
≈≈≈########  be possible, and might not be necessary...
  (You can re-open the floodgate if the water level lowers, when you're sure there's nothing (contaminants/hostiles)
    that can somehow get through the fortification and make the water dangerous, one way or another.)



Anyway, no matter what the water-source, you now have successfully tapped it.  Variations on a theme can have further exits from your initial reservoir (pre-prepared with closed floodgates) leading to secondary/tertiary reservoirs on lower levels, or pumps drawing it upwards above the original water-level (where possible).

I also use a similar sort of method for tapping magma.  Generally my "floodgate closes as soon as the fortification is carved" method (ensuring magma-safe materials are used for the floodgate/mechanism!) means that the carver immediately vacates the area where the (slower to flow) magma would be pouring in, and thus escapes general ‼death‼ or any related injury.  But with water the danger is drowning, which the zig-zag (need not be as long as above) is intended to mitigate, the carver easily outrunning the initial water which is 'de-pressurised' at each diagonal.  The magmaducts I make are generally for the benefit of magmaworkshops, and thus once I attain a 7/7ths fullness of the magmaduct I can (as of the current version, although who knows if it'll change in the future) close and keep closed the floodgate, to maintain a constant pool of uncooling magma that is free of magmabeasts wandering through it, regardless of what happens in the adjoining magmasource.  (Which I might even try draining...)

[KroganElite]

Thank you Ashery, Slothen and Starver. My dwarves can finally drink clean water.

[Catsup]

i have a simpler idea, just channel out a few tiles of a aquifier and put grates on it and theres your reservoir. You can make it any amount of levels lower by digging a stairway up to the aquifier but not breaching it and putting a hatch on the stair. Link this hatch to a lever and have a dwarf pull it as soon as the miner breaches the aquifier and runs past the open hatch. Wall off the water-way that the water will flow down from, and make sure the open space on top of the water surface for where the water is accessed is all hatches. Grates will cause the room to flood due to pressure, which can lead to fun. You can also use this method to dig up to a river but its suggested you have a horizontal corridor that can be bridge sealed in case aquatic mounts come in sieges somewhere before the stairs and hatch.

[AlmightyOne]

I have a question too, I currently use a default cistern design which involves pumping water from a source(usually the surface) and it travels about 10 levels deep to my hospital area where a cistern is dug out and of course, a well is constructed later. It involves pressure plates to prevent overflowing.
So this design is a closed system and no dwarf can access the aqueducts or cistern once everything is set up. Recently I've been trying to make this design more 'modifiable'(mechanisms for draining it so that dwarves can access it etc).
Should I even try this? I mean I don't foresee any need for them to access this system even in the future, nothing has gone wrong so far for all my fortresses.(Well once underground trees grew in my aqueducts since they hadn't carried water for long and when they had to, it got clogged. I ended digging and pumping out the remaining water and even chopping that tree, I then made a paved road throughout the duct.)
So should my design have a mechanism to be accessible to my dwarves? What other things can go wrong? The system is very simple I probably don't need to explain it.

[Ashery]

So should my design have a mechanism to be accessible to my dwarves? What other things can go wrong? The system is very simple I probably don't need to explain it.

My philosophy is that it's irrelevant if something actually can go wrong; I always try to account for unexpected issues.

Edit: To answer the actual question (Heh): Cisterns are, fortunately, pretty easy to drain, so there's not really a need to build a permanent way to drain it. Even if your cistern is completely surrounded by dug out rooms, you can easily use constructed walls to build a temporary drainage chute to the caverns.

Generally, most of my planning is more geared towards preventing flooding and the like.

[Starver]

An easy "maybe I want access later" method is to take a standard channel thus:


#######                #######
#######                #######
+++++++ --flooded to-> ≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
#######                #######
#######                ###+###  <- you /could/ tunnel in from the side and then either dig or fortify a link, of course.


..but if you preset a floodgate in a random side-alcove before flooding...

#######                #######                   #######
#######                #######                   #######
+++++++ --flooded to-> ≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ --later digging-> ≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
###X###                ###X###                   ###X###
#######                #######                   ###+###

                                                    ^
      And *now* you only need to connect a lever  --'
 (dry access, etc, until you actually open the floodgate to drain the original and/or feed the new channel...)


Just place at least one 'emergency floodgates' on every bit that might hold liquid (also useful to pre-build ones in-line to the current tunnels to isolate sections, especially between level-changes) and you have a handy way to tap off your water (or, with use of magma-safe components, magma in a hot-rock channeller...).  And doors on the entry to the areas that shouldn't flood, but might if you have miscalculated, to forestall a complete flooding while you're messing with the counter-measures.

To drain, you can either make a big enough sub-cistern to take the channel liquid, or send a tunnel up to the very edge of the map and then smooth and fortify that edge tile as an infinite exit (assuming you're not going through an aquifer, of course, in which case you may get the inverse... )

As to the tree problem, I believe that setting down a stockpile (of nothing, i.e. everything blanked out) is something people have done to prevent plant-growth where it would be awkward.  Slightly exploity, maybe, but your choice.

[AlmightyOne]

My philosophy is that it's irrelevant if something actually can go wrong; I always try to account for unexpected issues.

That's a good thing to follow and because of that I got conflicted regarding this, and because it applies in the real world. (I wanted to be more realistic)

Just place at least one 'emergency floodgates' on every bit that might hold liquid (also useful to pre-build ones in-line to the current tunnels to isolate sections, especially between level-changes) and you have a handy way to tap off your water (or, with use of magma-safe components, magma in a hot-rock channeller...).  And doors on the entry to the areas that shouldn't flood, but might if you have miscalculated, to forestall a complete flooding while you're messing with the counter-measures.

Hmm good tips, this sounds interesting to design and construct. It never occurred to me to use fortifications, quite a good idea(lets water in plus blocks the rest) .

To drain, you can either make a big enough sub-cistern to take the channel liquid, or send a tunnel up to the very edge of the map and then smooth and fortify that edge tile as an infinite exit (assuming you're not going through an aquifer, of course, in which case you may get the inverse... )

I was thinking maybe making a drainage which leads right to the cavern lake or something, but about this, are you implying that fortifying the edge tile makes it a infinite drainage source? I really didn't know that but if it's true I think I prefer not doing it.

[joeclark77]

From the top down, each level of my cisterns is carved out thusly:

Code: [Select]

#######
#    +#
#    +#
#    X#
#    +#
#    +#
#######
The floor and stair on the right edge can be designated all at once and there will be no danger of cave-in.  The empty space areas need to be channeled one layer at a time starting from the top, but having that floor and stair means you can always get back in to make repairs as necessary.  This can be as many levels deep as you like (and any length/width).

The top level has the in-flow pipe ("F" is a floodgate)

Code: [Select]

   #######
   #    +#
####    +#
~~~F    X#
####    +#
   #    +#
   #######
The second level has the overflow drain.  Like the one on your bathroom sink, this prevents the reservoir from over-filling if you forget to turn the faucet off.  It can drain into an aquifer or cavern, but usually I just dig a shaft down to the "real" drain pipe and from there to the edge of the map.

Code: [Select]

#######
#    +#
#    +#
#    X#
#    +###
#    ++++
#########
On every level below the second, I dig a "tap" with a floodgate connected to a lever elsewhere.  These are so I can provide water for future projects even if they haven't been imagined yet.

Code: [Select]

#########
#    +F+#
#    +###
#    X#
#    +#
#    +#
#######
On the very bottom level I build the "real" drain, controlled by floodgate.

Code: [Select]

#######
#    +#
#    +#
#    <#
#    +###
#    +F++
#########
Finally, on the level above the whole thing, you can cut channels for your wells without ever needing to worry about overflow problems.  You can cover the down-stair with a hatch cover or make your entry to the well somewhere else.  The reservoir can be drained by closing the in-flow and opening the bottom-level floodgate, so you can get in to do further digging.

Code: [Select]

+++++++
+++++++
++o+o++
+++++H+
++o+o++
+++++++
+++++++

[slothen]

To drain, you can either make a big enough sub-cistern to take the channel liquid, or send a tunnel up to the very edge of the map and then smooth and fortify that edge tile as an infinite exit (assuming you're not going through an aquifer, of course, in which case you may get the inverse... )

I was thinking maybe making a drainage which leads right to the cavern lake or something, but about this, are you implying that fortifying the edge tile makes it a infinite drainage source? I really didn't know that but if it's true I think I prefer not doing it.

This is exactly what happens.  Its no different than walling off part of a cavern near the map edge and pumping your water off the map that way.

For drainage you have lots of options.  Firstly, for wells and cisterns that won't need maintenance/cleaning, drainage is completely optional.  For large cisterns that hold water for later projects, drainage is probably a good idea, and should be planned for before any actual water gets in.  For small quantities of water you can drain it into a cavern or a large dug-out area and let evaporation handle it.  For lots of water, I prefer to route the water down a few z-levels first, so gravity can do the work of actually getting the water INTO the drainage system.  You can route the water to the edge, or even MORE exploitable, you can put a few lever-linked doors at the bottom, and setting the levers to repeat will rapidly open and close the doors, crushing water into nothingness.  A very nice option is to use submerged pumps (must be powered) to speed the water wherever you want to send it.  This is nice mostly because water is very viscious when flowing horizontally, without pumps any drainage system that doesn't have a LOT of z-level drop will be too slow.

[AlmightyOne]

The water can be any distance directly below the well. If there is 7/7 deep water somewhere directly below the well, then the depth of the top tile of this water does not matter.

One fact which I realised I overlooked for so long, after reading your post.

From the top down, each level of my cisterns is carved out thusly:

Nice design..It seems to be really useful in terms of being a source of water for projects plus it can be modified at any stage.

Its no different than walling off part of a cavern near the map edge and pumping your water off the map that way.

Hmm maybe I might actually end up doing that..I never thought of making drainage mechanisms for my water supply before but now I found the need for it.