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[PDF urist master]

one thing that's always puzzled me is why the forums hate elves more than goblins

goblins pose a more immediate threat to the fortress than simple elf folk. sure elves are hypocritical bastards, but at least they're (usually) allies. A goblin' hostility and desire to murder your dwarves should make it a more hate civilization than the elves, yet the forum in indifferent to goblins, while being an elf sympathizer will earn you a hammer to the face.

Another thing. you rarely see conversations about humans. even kobolds get more time on the forums. why is that? 

[Greiger]

Elves make a short joke.  Thus they get all the hate that can be harvested from the deep earth.

Goblins are a valuable metal resource, you just have to mine it in a different way.

Kobolds have become the woobie.  They are small creatures just trying to survive in a world that hates them.

Humans are... uh...nondescript.

[Loud Whispers]

One thing that's always puzzled me is why the forums hate elves more than goblins

Prejudice based off of that one horrible experience where the Elves denied the Dwarves life saving boozes because they got offended.

Goblins are true to their intentions and they don't actively hate the Dwarves, they hate everyone.
Quite frankly though at the end of the day the Overseer either learns how to not offend the Elves or the Elves learn about Dwarven culture, so we don't really hate the Elves.

Goblins pose a more immediate threat to the fortress than simple elf folk.

They also have weird morality. But you know where you stand with goblins. They import terror and you export death. It's a destructively harmonious relationship.
Simply think of it this way: Goblins and Dwarves are partners in adversity and discord.

Yet the forum in indifferent to goblins, while being an elf sympathizer will earn you a hammer to the face.

Nah Elves are cool. It's just a terrible joke that doesn't die. Goblins don't give you much to hate.

Another thing. you rarely see conversations about humans. even kobolds get more time on the forums. why is that? 

Adventure mode forum they're all the jazz!

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

one thing that's always puzzled me is why the forums hate elves more than goblins

Probably due to longstanding culture.

[moki]

Elves being hypocritical bastards may be the problem. Goblins are like a good enemy with a certain honor, hating everyone the same, while elves are always acting friendly while stabbing you in the back. Goblins just attack you, because they live for waging wars, but elves send caravans (mostly useless stuff) while insulting dwarvenkind at every possibility. Also their lifestyle is as different from the dwarven one as it can be... killing people because they look, dress or believe differently is a very old tradition.

And humans are just boring... they're the too realistic for a fantasy world. They're not really characterized by anything special or unusual. I know humans. If I want to play a game with humans, it's not DF. They're decent trade partners sometimes, but usually not worth the mention.

[PDF urist master]

i've seen elves accepted into the ranks of dwarves before, and i've never seen any goblin recognized as a honorary dwarf before.

yet the community still hats elves more than goblins

[Loud Whispers]

i've seen elves accepted into the ranks of dwarves before, and i've never seen any goblin recognized as a honorary dwarf before.

yet the community still hats elves more than goblins

I've seen a few goblin Kings of Dwarven civs. One or two Forts even kept them. The hatred between goblins is not lesser to elves, it's of a different kind of hatred.

And humans are just boring... they're the too realistic for a fantasy world.

Realism is boring? Do you even adventure mode?

[chevil]

I don't hate elves or goblins. But elves are annoying.

Goblins force you to think strategically about traps military and defenses that leads to fun.

Elves get pissed about a small piece of wood and while they are leaving they run into an ambush leaving useless piles of wooden trinkets all over my front yard.

[Halceon]

I don't hate elves or goblins. But elves are annoying.

Goblins force you to think strategically about traps military and defenses that leads to fun.

Elves get pissed about a small piece of wood and while they are leaving they run into an ambush leaving useless piles of wooden trinkets all over my front yard.

And then you can't sell those trinkets back to elves, because somehow in the process of having their carriers killed by goblins, these items have become unethical.

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

Personally I rather like elves. I'd probably be more comfortable living as an elf than as a dwarf. That doesn't mean I don't like dwarves, especially in the context of this game. But I can appreciate elves' protection of nature, although of course they can be rather hypocritical about it. And it feels to me like elven culture is better suited to the needs of an introvert like myself... or something along those lines.

[Lasander]

I always remove the portion in their entity file that makes wood offensive to them.  I never have to worry about cutting down too many trees

[Putnam]

I always remove the portion in their entity file that makes wood offensive to them.  I never have to worry about cutting down too many trees

Pretty sure they don't actually get offended in this version, since they don't send a diplomat to tell you not to cut down more than 100 trees AFAIK.

[sambojin]

Elves are unreliable. From a dwarves perspective, considering their society is based around a system where one death, one poor harvest, one strange thought can lead an entire fortress into a cascade of spiralling death, reliability is prized.

Elves ask for things. They negotiate. They even demand things. Sometimes they're your best friend, sometimes they're at war with you. But they also have things we want, so it puts us at a disadvantage. If we want their giant eagles, we have to be nice to them and trade with them. If we want to harvest the timber that is our's by right of occupation, we have to piss them off. Their strange views on wood make changes to dwarven economy that is simply unacceptable sometimes. Their caravans take just as much time and cause just as many problems for a fortress as any seige would, except they actually expect something in return as well as limiting what you can do in the meantime. Therefore, they have our hate. Sometimes they get killed for it. But they made us think about it. Do we want to kill them or not?

Goblins are reliable. They turn up, they fight. Or more accurately, they bring iron with the only negotiation possible being to kill them for it. They might "request" you to set up a fiendishly complex layout of traps, train your military or batten down the hatches, but they don't force you to. It's never a demand if you want their lovely, lovely goblinite. It's always on offer, they never stop bringing it just because you didn't decide to kill the last lot of them. They never tell you that they'll stop trading goblinite because you didn't slaughter enough things last season. And so therefore, they are reliable.

Humans don't get any ire, because they don't make any demands. Trade or don't trade, war or no war. They're not too sanctimonious about it. Similar to elves but without the hippy crap, but without the war animals either. There's not much they have that we can't get ourselves, or have a decent substitute for, but we can at least do what we please as we decide on whether they'll die or not.

Kobolds? Poor little buggers.........

[Sonlirain]

I don't see the problems with elves hating wooden crafts... who the hell makes wooden things anyway when you have more stone than outer Mongolia?
Just make milions of mugs and sell those for THEIR wood.
And if you spent too much time in the overlands and actually decide to make wooden crafts than just sell them to any of the 3 other caravans (Humans Goblins or other Dwarves)

I rarely have to send woodcutters if i have elves coming because i have a ton of stone trinkets i can trade for a yearly supply of wood (mostly for beds and charcoal) and drink/barrels to boot.


Humans are deviate dwarves that evolved into a overground species.
OR
Deviate elves that decided to be more like dwarves but couldn't manage living underground.
They have the trait of building massive fortresses/cities... altho they decide to make them above ground and climb upwards rather than down.
Also their ambition sometimes leads to megaprojects.

Humans = Almost dorfs


Goblins - Moblile iron seam. Add serrated glass discs in corrodor for bonus bones for bonecrafters.

[zzedar]

I think it's a leftover from earlier versions, where they'd try to get you to stop cutting down trees.