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[Di]

Yep, we've once had thread like this.
The topmost problem with the suggestion was that whereas circus is a hundred levels below the ground accessible only through a pair of tubes, the heaven would simply be a dozen of levels above, ready for anyone to invade.
And adding another hundred levels to make it harder to reach (it's kind of endgame event after all) just isn't worth it.

Though, if someone would willingly set the number of levels above the ground to sufficiently hight value it would be fun if up-stairs on the topmost level would poke out of the eerie pits in the circus.

[Loud Whispers]

Though, if someone would willingly set the number of levels above the ground to sufficiently hight value it would be fun if up-stairs on the topmost level would poke out of the eerie pits in the circus.

The DF world is a Klein bottle?!

[Catsup]

well iunno about you guys but building upwards was pretty dam hard, i had to build up/down stairs 1 at a time for my 15 Z level drop for goblins onto spikes.

And dam now im hoping a titan/forgotten beast that looks like a big red dog shows up; i wonder what clifford tastes like

[WillowLuman]

Personally, I don't think that gods should just be invading / wiping out fortresses for evil things happening there. Amorality carries its own punishment: laziness leads to things not getting done, which spells disaster depending on the thing. Letting someone be too wrathful shouldn't punish you by having the gods smite your fort, it should punish you because this wrathful person smashes your drawbridge lever in a tantrum or orders your master weapon smith hammered to death.

Well remember that these dieties are not "good" so to speak.

So them wishing to destroy a fortress because they just uttarly dislike it isn't anything too unusual. Mind you, I'd think it would take a bit more then just being a jerk to do it.

It wouldn't be very fun if they player had to dedicate their fortress to building temples and following the particular standards of a deity instead of their own megaprojects, just to avoid getting smited. Like if there was a god of cheese, and they annihilate your fort because you didn't train everyone as legendary cheesemakers.

There was another thread a while ago, calling for good regions to be equally hazardous to evil ones. At one point there was even the suggestion of "good" husks and "good" reanimations. Invading heaven just seems like a palette swap of invading hell, so to speak. Mind you, there are some religions (Hindu, for one) where demonic figures come from the sky; they just come from a different part of the sky than the celestial ones.

Maybe we could have a sort of Icarus or Babel thing, where if you go too high you offend the gods with your hubris and they send the massed hordes of their faithful to topple you.

[Xantalos]

Kill a certain number of followers of God A and they send divine agents or something, mayhaps?

[Neonivek]

It wouldn't be very fun if they player had to dedicate their fortress to building temples and following the particular standards of a deity instead of their own megaprojects, just to avoid getting smited. Like if there was a god of cheese, and they annihilate your fort because you didn't train everyone as legendary cheesemakers

As I said, you would probably have to do something worse then simply being a jerk.

Mind you a god setting their full attention to destroying your fortress may not outright destroy it.

In my oppinion a god incarnate is megabeast strength and they simply cannot spawn legions of megabeast powered beings to destroy you.

[Xantalos]

It wouldn't be very fun if they player had to dedicate their fortress to building temples and following the particular standards of a deity instead of their own megaprojects, just to avoid getting smited. Like if there was a god of cheese, and they annihilate your fort because you didn't train everyone as legendary cheesemakers

As I said, you would probably have to do something worse then simply being a jerk.

Mind you a god setting their full attention to destroying your fortress may not outright destroy it.

In my oppinion a god incarnate is megabeast strength and they simply cannot spawn legions of megabeast powered beings to destroy you.

In that case gods are fucking pathetic.

[Neonivek]

Hardly, Megabeast strength being stronger then anything in the entire game, being able to single handedly take on a fortress and entire armies, and being more powerful then the Norse Gods in general.

They just arn't all powerful gods who could just uttarly destroy a fortress at a whim.

Mind you killing their megabeast power incarnate avatar wouldn't likely kill an outright god (it would kill the Incarnate gods like the Titans and other megabeasts but they are the physical gods) but it would get them off your back.

[WillowLuman]

No, any army of megabeasts is way more godly than a single one. Putting down megabeasts is fairly routine for a decently-run fortress (or even a quite decent adventurer). I have yet to meet titan who can outsmart trap.

If there were several at once, then you might have a problem. So, an inhuman army is definitely more powerful than a single avatar. They only slaughter armies in worldgen because battles at present are calculated as a series of 1 on 1 duels between each of the combatants. A single squad of trained soldiers is usually a match for any one creature, except sometimes a Bronze Colossus. In which case you just break out the masterwork steel/adamantine weapons/ballista bolts/magma deathtraps.

[Neonivek]

No, any army of megabeasts is way more godly than a single one.

Yes but an army of mega megabeasts is more godly then your army of megabeasts.

There will always be a "we can make the god even more powerful" the point is that the dirrect avatar of a diety is megabeast quality.

An Army of megabeasts would be an army of gods.

I am only saying the power of a single god avatar. Not the power of whatever legions he has on his beck and call. Which while they can vary (He may have a few megabeast strength creatures on his side) but otherwise the Valkyrie is what I consider to be the template and thus Semimegabeast strength or demigod mortal is what I consider to be the strength of an individual godly servant.

A fort being attacked by one powerful Megabeast surrounded by powerful semimegabeasts... is not something to take lightly anyhow. Though I wouldn't think a god would send avatars unless they were outright trying to wipe you off the face of the map for a very good reason.

If there were several [megabeasts] at once, then you might have a problem

You should outright lose.

A single squad of trained soldiers is usually a match for any one creature, except sometimes a Bronze Colossus

It is because currently they are underpowered in everyway.

[Xantalos]

About underpoweredness: dragons. Just dragons. I know on most fortressi they're pretty young, but on the older worlds they should be getting up to Smaug or Balerion or Ancalgon the Black levels of power. Maybe when they can literally melt your fortifications and invade your fortress properly they'll be more of a threat. I really want to reenact the Hobbit.

[WillowLuman]

Oh, a megabeast or titan showing up early will wreck you, not doubt. But against an established fort, they're nothing. A dragon might cause considerable damage with the gouts of flames before one of your squaddies impales it's face, but that face is going to get impaled. A hydra might kill a few of your soldiers or even wipe out a squad, but it will bleed out soon after. If the best a god can do is attack your fort in person, mano-et-forto, then that's a bit unimpressive.

If they bring or just send an army of supernatural supersoldiers, then there's a challenge. One demon is no match for a well-armed, well-trained squad, but demons end forts because not only do they each have considerable power, they also come hordes. Even a necromancer with a steady supply of refuse tends to be more of a problem. You can drop a 500 ton block of granite on even the most terribly powerful monster, but against overwhelming numbers, there's no slab wide enough. _{unless they're all lying down on the same tile.}

Again, though, if Hell kills you though combat, then it's a bit boring if Heaven does the same. Maybe they gods can do more traditional god-y things, like dousing your fort in syndrome rain.

[Xantalos]

Oh, a megabeast or titan showing up early will wreck you, not doubt. But against an established fort, they're nothing. A dragon might cause considerable damage with the gouts of flames before one of your squaddies impales it's face, but that face is going to get impaled. A hydra might kill a few of your soldiers or even wipe out a squad, but it will bleed out soon after. If the best a god can do is attack your fort in person, mano-et-forto, then that's a bit unimpressive.

If they bring or just send an army of supernatural supersoldiers, then there's a challenge. One demon is no match for a well-armed, well-trained squad, but demons end forts because not only do they each have considerable power, they also come hordes. Even a necromancer with a steady supply of refuse tends to be more of a problem. You can drop a 500 ton block of granite on even the most terribly powerful monster, but against overwhelming numbers, there's no slab wide enough. _{unless they're all lying down on the same tile.}

Again, though, if Hell kills you though combat, then it's a bit boring if Heaven does the same. Maybe they gods can do more traditional god-y things, like dousing your fort in syndrome rain.

Dropping massive slabs of 'heavenstone' on you from above?
Unrelated, but would anyone know of a mod where dragons are at least kind of what I detailed above? I got a fort attacked by one a few days ago and was severely disappointed.

[WillowLuman]

I find that if you increase their regeneration a bit, harden their scales, and give them wings, they're pretty apocalyptic. Involves mugging about with materials in the creature definition though.

[Iapetus]

I'm Urist the Digger.  My pick is the pick that will pierce the heavens.  Who the hell do you think I am?