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[The13thRonin]

Using Legends Viewer I realized awhile ago that dwarves always have disproportionately high death rate compared to the other races.

Scouring the civilizations tab I realized that almost ALL prominent dwarven civilizations were led by vampires with 20,000 murders each... It seems that once a king becomes a vampire (and during 1050 years this is BOUND to happen) they are never ousted because they are unable of being 'chased off' when they lead a civilization.

This may also be happening with other entities who have monarchs that are hereditary.

PS - may be old news... I've been inactive for awhile... Thought I'd share though... Bonus points if someone draws a vampire dwarven king atop a throne of skulls?

[The13thRonin]

Also dwarves suck at war?

Battle for goblin dark fortress:

6000 dwarves VS 28 goblins and 2 trolls...

Goblins take 25 losses.

Dwarves take 5500 losses.

So every goblin killed 220 dwarves before dying...

Also somehow the goblins were victorious...

What???

All I can say is they must have had one LONGGGGG trap corridor.

[Mesa]

Also dwarves suck at war?

Battle for goblin dark fortress:

6000 dwarves VS 28 goblins and 2 trolls...

Goblins take 25 losses.

Dwarves take 5500 losses.

So every goblin killed 220 dwarves before dying...

Also somehow the goblins were victorious...

What???

All I can say is they must have had one LONGGGGG trap corridor.

They're goblins. They always mange to find a way to screw dorfs up.

[The13thRonin]

Also dwarves suck at war?

Battle for goblin dark fortress:

6000 dwarves VS 28 goblins and 2 trolls...

Goblins take 25 losses.

Dwarves take 5500 losses.

So every goblin killed 220 dwarves before dying...

Also somehow the goblins were victorious...

What???

All I can say is they must have had one LONGGGGG trap corridor.

They're goblins. They always mange to find a way to screw dorfs up.

Dwarves sustained 228943 battle deaths throughout history as opposed to the next highest: humans at 58236...

Um... Worrying? Over four times as much?

In that one war with the goblins the goblins lost 50 guys and the dwarves lost 15,000... How does that even happen? A whole dwarven civilization attacked a group of like 100 goblins...?

Does combat work on a % base? Because often when the dwarves have a force of like 20000 and the goblins have a force of 200 they both take about 80% casualties but of course 80% of 20000 is much higher.

[Broken]

Goblins (and sometimes humans) fare very well in world gen battles because they are usually leaded by Demons, and the code sees battles
as lots of 1-1 duels (that the demon always wins). Thus, battles of 2000 vs 14 where one side loses 13 and the other 1500.

[Mesa]

We'd need some way to visualize those battles.
I'm imagining that goblins could've just sneaked up upon sleeping dwarves (should they have made a camp of sorts) and just mass-murdered them.

Either that, or throwing rocks is actually a war-worthy strategy.

[The13thRonin]

Goblins (and sometimes humans) fare very well in world gen battles because they are usually leaded by Demons, and the code sees battles
as lots of 1-1 duels (that the demon always wins). Thus, battles of 2000 vs 14 where one side loses 13 and the other 1500.

As far as I know no demon leader... The listed leader of the defense was a normal gobbo.

[chevil]

Toady needs to work on worldgen battles. I remember one battle between elves and dwarves where the dwarves had twice the number of troops. Both sides had lost an even amount of troops and only about 20-30 elves were alive but the dwaves lost that war for some reason.

[Kibstable]

Must be the booze dependency, they cant make it through the fighting day without alcohol. Don't think the goblins have any similar handicap.

[MrSparky]

the dwaves lost that war for some reason.

It could have been a positional victory, though if that sort of thing was relevant then elves would also take fewer losses due to air superiority. So maybe a victory via casualty value, the dwarves lost more leaders while elves lost more grunts.

[Ianflow]

I haven't looked at many of the wars exactly
When I look at worldgen files via legends viewer, I will find sites that used to hold goblins. Often every so many years 1 goblin reinhabits the area, only to be besieged by another local fort. I've seen maybe 10 goblin dark fortresses and such that start out with 60 gobbos, but within a few years, a human, elf, or dwarven siege
Give it a few decades, if all three other races are nearby, the fort becomes under constant siege
Shortly after, the gobbo fort becomes a place where 1 gobbo pops up, then three sieges within the same year
I see more 'dead' gobbo forts more often than world gen'd dead forts of any other kind

[swordsmith04]

Goblins (and sometimes humans) fare very well in world gen battles because they are usually leaded by Demons, and the code sees battles
as lots of 1-1 duels (that the demon always wins). Thus, battles of 2000 vs 14 where one side loses 13 and the other 1500.

It's mostly a combination of this and Dwarves not living as long (and therefore not having as long to build up their skills) as goblins. Dwarves are just as capable fighters, but they're out of their league when facing a goblin who has been fighting longer than the dwarf has been alive. The elves have the same immortality advantage goblins have, and the humans get a natural combat advantage from their size and demon leaders.

Sometimes a dwarf will live long enough in worldgen to skill up on the mook goblins and be able to go toe-to-toe with the goblin supersoldiers; a good example is Queen Tholtig Cryptbrain, although she fought elves, not goblins, I believe.
The reason your soldiers can stand up to and defeat the goblins in fortress mode is because most players don't consider a dwarf a soldier rather than a recruit until they become quite skilled; most worldgen soldiers are merely Competent in their weaponskills, judging by the immigrants. (My current fortress seems to be in a world where military service is mandatory; every single immigrant has had a weapon skill. It's beautiful.)

Your disproportionate death rate might have something to do with the vampire rulers, as well.

[mastahcheese]

Your disproportionate death rate might have something to do with the vampire rulers, as well.

I think I read somewhere that vampires intentionally target dwarves with higher skill sets, which is why the blood of your legendary +3 weaponsmith tastes far better than the blood of a peasant, if they do this in world gen, too, and combine this against goblin supersoldiers, you don't just have dwarves fighting mega-gobbos, you have anemic peasent dwarves fighting super-gobbos.

[MDFification]

I rarely see dwarven militaries using Marksdwarfs while Goblin raids frequently feature archers.... a goblin squad could conceivably just hamstring and entire attack by peppering melee dwarfs before they manage to hit back. Seeing as legends lists this stuff as one-on-one duels instead of having all the soldiers fight at once you could end up with one guy rushing the archer, getting killed, then the next...

[Bavette]

I do remember a tale that was the other way around. Queen Thotilg and her Dwarves had killed hundreds and thousands of elves with just a handful of soldiers. Tholtig herself was never defeated till the day Old Age had catch up with her and she passed on to rule from dwarf heaven.