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What do you use Cheat Engine mostly for?

To cheat. Duh.
- 13 (33.3%)
To understand the coding of games better. (Disassembly/code arrangements/etc.)
- 3 (7.7%)
To improve gameplay (no more level/item-ginding, especially)
- 7 (17.9%)
Personal Challenges (Persistent Level 1 in an RPG and otherwise (IE: No Level-up, but can still collect loot and cash.)
- 2 (5.1%)
Breaking the Game (Think of Invis/Sketch from FF3, but with other games as well.)
- 4 (10.3%)
Breaking the game's canon/reality (Aeris didn't die after all... She was just in a really really deep sleep. Thanks Masamune-PM!)
- 3 (7.7%)
Improving Let's Play story-telling (by adjusting the code itself (Best example: X-Com))
- 5 (12.8%)
Other (Unlisted/post what I missed)
- 2 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 17


Author Topic: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs  (Read 1693 times)

Itnetlolor

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Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« on: March 01, 2013, 11:38:07 pm »

I've been dicking around with Cheat Engine lately, and been obliterating the very fabric of many realities in various games (provided they're CPU-friendly enough to not crash CE as I work on them (mostly emulated and classic DOS games), and I have got around to thinking, how many of you use Cheat Engine, and for what purpose/to what extent?

This thread is also to come up with ways that CE can help out with LPs, and their storytelling as anyone plays them. The idea of the LP thing came along as I was using the program to find out the codes for modifying base values, stats for troops, and etc. in X-Com, and just how much more interesting storytelling can be with the use of this for various purposes (I had Command John Rambo 1-man-army a UFO (UFO-1, BTW), and he came in with a kill record of 65,335 kills, and 0 missions). He was MIA, but then came back once the Skyranger returned because God I willed it to be (by modding a little code).

X-Com being a good example, I already found the code clusters where the bases, their names, layouts, time until completion of a building and so on are, and figured that I can custom-make my base at the very start of the game without needing to save first for a savegame editor. Same could be said about the troops as well. Especially awesome, I found out that you can revive lost troops before their code gets overwritten by a new guy (Change 2 bits labeled FFFF somewhere before their name back to 0000, and they're back at base. KIA/MIA, doesn't matter, they're home. I assume -1 (or FFFF, in this case) means lost forever, whereas 0000/01/02/03 means which base they belong to. Nonetheless, lost a guy, had someone killed, got someone in the LP that wants their dude back? Well, here you go.). Ranks can be modified, as well as how long they should stay in the hospital; you can even have psi-capable guys before the labs are even researched. Oh, the many uses this can have to improve story-telling.

Other games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy have also been interesting in messing with the code as well. I was bothered by the limits of the Level-1 challenge, and how many fights you had to avoid, so why not give them a persistent Level 1, and always at 0 EXP to ensure it stays that way? In some cases, the EXP/TECH gain can also be modded in to give zilch as well post-combat. You get the loot, but not the experience. Not bad for challenges. I also found it funny to replace Crono with Magus from beginning to end. Made the New Game+ 1st Lavos encounter even more appropriate solo. You can't do that at any time in the game normally. That fight was rather epic.

Of course, I'm still a bit of a cheater at heart, and want to use this to cheat for my own reasons, ranking from avoiding the grind, to becoming a god in these games, and being able to blow up Narshe at the very beginning of FF3/6 with Ultima while I am using Magitek Armor is always fun, as well as 1-shotting a literally unkillable creature in-game (Finally killed that damn guardian at Vector long before the finale).

As I have been screwing around with this, I have been getting to understand some games a whole lot better in how their code is handled, and it gives me a much greater appreciation for all the work that goes into them in the long-run. Just as well, it makes me feel rather proud of myself for my level of intuition in estimating the common-ground of where the codes lie when it comes to searching. For example, most-every DOSBOX code games use is located within (05000000 -> 0FFFFFFF). Everything before 05000000 is DOSBOX itself, and up until 0FFFFFFF is the game data before the more obscure stuff appears (usually access strings to other game packages the game itself accesses and etc. or a whole mess of nothing). Some other games that access other files, I had to really pat myself on the back for figuring this one out, you can modify strings for them to access things they normally shouldn't (like alternate character files within the game, other scenes and levels and so forth; in other cases, a background can turn into a spritesheet of a character if you can find it).

What other crazy fun things have you done/can be done with games using Cheat Engine?

EDIT:
Oh yeah, and feel free to submit Cheat Tables and anything else Cheat Engine related as well (scripts, trainers, etc.). Don't forget to use Pointers in some games, especially emulated ones (DosBox uses at least 1 pointer  in games, since the code shifts all over the place every reload.). If you have a bunch of code to covert to pointers, get Calc, or any other calculator program that can allow a Programmer's Caluclator, and do the pointer offset math for them to make the task a tad easier; way easier if they also have a consistent offset from each other as well.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 11:59:58 pm by Itnetlolor »
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freeformschooler

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 11:44:35 pm »

How would you find something like the character ID for the first character in Chrono Trigger (for your Crono<>Magus) yourself? I guess you could just monitor any value within a range of around how many characters you have and then find which values are changing each time you switch their places.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 11:47:27 pm »

How would you find something like the character ID for the first character in Chrono Trigger (for your Crono<>Magus) yourself? I guess you could just monitor any value within a range of around how many characters you have and then find which values are changing each time you switch their places.
That's how I found out, actually. I loaded up an old save, swapped positions a few times, and determined that 00=Crono 06=Magus, and figure out the party codes, and replace them where necessary. Unfortunately, I can't get a proper 3xMagus army. I have 3 Magus, but 2 of them have the other characters' palettes, and don't do anything.

Another fun thing I did was make the battle against Gato at the Melinnial Fair an utterly epic fight. Who'd think a carnival game could be so devastating and durable. How many luminaires and dark matters did it take to finally get it to give me 15 insignificant silver points? Didn't think I had to spend a megaelixier on it either.

EDIT:
Similarly, with Sonic 3/& Knuckles, I never though a lightning shield can help me breathe underwater, and not discharge while at it.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 11:55:17 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Catastrophic lolcats

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2013, 11:50:34 pm »

The way I've always viewed it is as followed:
Singleplayer, cheat as much as you want. It's your experience and you can enjoy it anyway you want.
Multiplayer, you're sharing an experience with a bunch of people. Cheating to ruin the experience of others just so you have more fun is bad.

Now of course you have different levels of "cheating". You've got hacks, glitches, possibly balance issues, possibly "pay2win". There's also the issue of games that blur the line between singleplayer and multiplayer which are becoming so much more popular. They're all something that can be discussed to death and back and quite frankly will likely derail the thread.

Limiting this just to singleplay games I have no problems at all with people cheating, although I will say that it often water downs the intended experience. I have learnt the occasional thing about game design by cheating particularly when it comes to a game's scripting.
It is rather sad that we're seeing a new generation where in-built cheats are becoming obsolete due to developers releasing cheats as DLC. Though the PC market isn't really all that affected by this move due to third-party applications.
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Frumple

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2013, 11:52:09 pm »

So, threw out three. To cheat (sometimes you just want infinite resources, y'know?), to adjust personal gameplay annoyances (grinding can go bugger itself, after a point. also fire emblem's item degradation can crawl up a horse and die), and other. The other would sorta' fall under the code aspect, but... not quite. There's a number of games that I've played that I'll fire up a memory editor (used ArtMoney for the longest time, can't be arsed to bugger with multiple, some commercial, versions anymore, have switched to CE recently-ish) for a combination of testing (if I'm doing something odd, or messing with mods, or whathaveyou) and high-end mechanics exploration.

The latter in particular I've done with roguelikes (Particularly dungeon crawl, but others as well) quite often, as being able to explore the nuances of a particular situation that would normally kill you (and figure out how to avoid that results) rapidly instead of the over the course of several (dozen/hundred) deaths saves an absolutely ungodly amount of time. And, frankly, memory editing is often considerably more fluid and functional than whatever built in cheat or debug commands any particular game may have.
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freeformschooler

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 11:55:11 pm »

How would you find something like the character ID for the first character in Chrono Trigger (for your Crono<>Magus) yourself? I guess you could just monitor any value within a range of around how many characters you have and then find which values are changing each time you switch their places.
That's how I found out, actually. I loaded up an old save, swapped positions a few times, and determined that 00=Crono 06=Magus, and figure out the party codes, and replace them where necessary. Unfortunately, I can't get a proper 3xMagus army. I have 3 Magus, but 2 of them have the other characters' palettes, and don't do anything.

Clearly further experimentation is necessary, then.

This is, by the way, why I use Cheat Engine. If you're in for an interesting read in this line of thought, this is an excellent guide for Final Fantasy Tactics on the viability of using just one character and one class for the entire game. It even includes gamesharked classes like Chocobo.
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DrPoo

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Re: Cheat Engine and General Gaming and LPs
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 04:03:22 pm »

I had alot of fun using Cheat Engine on ROBLOX, due to the crappy way its made, i could inject code into the servers and kids clients. I could change some peoples names to "SPACECOCKS", bypass VIP only content locks, make everything deadly or catch everyone in an unending loop of death.

Really bad shit since i could in theory sneak in a backdoor or something.

Fun stuff.
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