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[Fortport]

A week ago, one of my best friends, usually spirited and happy, is now suicidal and depressed.
He's lost some friends, who told him he was annoying, stalker-ish, and worthless.
I've known him for months prior to this, and he's none of this. Twice now,
he's come to me, and both times I had to set him right with some encouraging words.

But I can't keep doing this, because it's so hard to summon the words to say..
It feels like I'm persuading someone to not pull the trigger, and there's just too much
tension on the matter. I feel like if I say something wrong, or slip up, he'll do something stupid.

Fortunately, I was able to calm him down both times, and make him feel less negative about life,
but I still worry.

I know I'm being vague, and that it may seem like he's over-reacting, but he's also had other issues in his life
that aren't helping at all.

Maybe I'll explain if I get enough feedback.

[Vector]

Calm him down, then suggest he see a therapist.  If he's consistently slipping straight from happy to suicidal, there's probably an underlying problem.

[Fortport]

Calm him down, then suggest he see a therapist.  If he's consistently slipping straight from happy to suicidal, there's probably an underlying problem.

This is the first time I've ever seen him like this.
But, thank you for your input. For now, he's okay, though.
I'll consider doing that the next time he starts to act dangerous.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What exactly is he doing? Certain behaviors are extremely indicative of specific problems, but just "depressed" doesn't suggest much other than referring him to a therapist.

[Vector]

Ah--well, how long has it lasted, and how big were the gaps between his coming to you?

What exactly is he doing? Certain behaviors are extremely indicative of specific problems, but just "depressed" doesn't suggest much other than referring him to a therapist.

This one, too.

[Fortport]

Ah--well, how long has it lasted, and how big were the gaps between his coming to you?

What exactly is he doing? Certain behaviors are extremely indicative of specific problems, but just "depressed" doesn't suggest much other than referring him to a therapist.

This one, too.

Sorry, I wasn't very specific! The last he talked to me, about how he felt, wasn't even a couple hours back, and the first time we talked about that was a few days ago. One morning I woke up, and checked my skype to find a "See you in hell" message in my most recent contacts, which just left me bewildered. He wasn't online at the time, so I couldn't ask him what was up. I forgot about it, as he hadn't logged on until later that day. A day goes by, before I finally ask him why he sent me his bizarre message.

At first he refused to tell me, but I was persistent; he told me he had been contemplating suicide that night. Worried, I asked what made him think about doing such a thing.
He starts to tell me about how he was just dealing with a relationship, and assures me that he will be fine.

A week goes by, and we stay in contact, talking like normal. He wasn't necessarily happy, but fine as far as I could tell. Then, one morning, before he goes to work, we start talking again. He was acting a little upset, so I asked why. He told me, "Because I'm a suicidal wreck that gets upset over friendships going awry and me still holding onto them because I care about them. But I always end up screwing it up. I'm a loser, and always will be."

After that, I comforted him, and calmed him down.

The next time we talk, three days later, today, about him having lost another friend, that told him he was acting like a stalker, and annoying. I can't really explain how he acted, but I have the logs of when we talked that day. (Yes, it was on Skype.) Since I'm not a therapist, I just did what I could. (I'm also sleep-deprived right now, so excuse me if this all looks rushed.)

[2/21/2013 8:46:49 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: You need to calm down, Zachary..
[2/21/2013 8:49:20 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: Calm? No. I'm tired of trying to calm, when everything, everyone, anyhow they can, abandons me, grows tired of me, leaves me to be alone, I'm the worst of the worst, terrible and cursed to live this life a broken dream.
[2/21/2013 8:50:31 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: I don't deserve love, I don't deserve happiness.
[2/21/2013 8:50:47 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: So have others deemed for me, so it shall be.
[2/21/2013 9:01:57 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: ...My thoughts are spat upon, my dreams dashed, my optimism trampled.
[2/21/2013 9:02:17 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: My insight insulted, my generosity mocked.
[2/21/2013 9:02:41 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: my caringness treated as being a stalker.
[2/21/2013 9:04:56 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Zachary, you and I have known each other for a while..
[2/21/2013 9:06:05 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And, I want to tell you something.
[2/21/2013 9:08:04 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: ..
[2/21/2013 9:08:06 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: If you'll listen.
[2/21/2013 9:08:41 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: What is it?
[2/21/2013 9:14:01 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Do you remember what I told you, a little while ago?
[2/21/2013 9:14:06 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Maybe a few days?
[2/21/2013 9:14:40 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: ...What was it, exactly?
[2/21/2013 9:15:20 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I reminded you of just how much of a likeable person you are, and how many other people there are that would be happy to be your friend.
[2/21/2013 9:16:21 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: I don't believe that.
[2/21/2013 9:16:28 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: Ask anyone who is my friend. Ask anyone.
[2/21/2013 9:16:39 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: ..Ask people on the game you were on.
[2/21/2013 9:16:48 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: What they think of Zak attacks.
[2/21/2013 9:16:53 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: ...They'll tell you.
[2/21/2013 9:16:54 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I AM your damn friend, Zachary. And I don't believe a word of what you said.
[2/21/2013 9:17:10 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: This fictional thing you think you are, it's not right.
[2/21/2013 9:17:18 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: They'll tell you why I'm worthless.
[2/21/2013 9:18:20 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: But you're NOT worthless, Zachary. I've known you long enough,  to remember back when you were such a happy, spirited, and cheerful guy.
[2/21/2013 9:18:34 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: So you lost a couple friends?
[2/21/2013 9:18:36 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Get more. You can.
[2/21/2013 9:18:45 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: You have me, and some others.
[2/21/2013 9:18:49 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: It's not the end of the world.
[2/21/2013 9:19:12 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: One of the reasons I liked you, is because of just how cheerful you seemed.
[2/21/2013 9:19:43 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And I still do.
[2/21/2013 9:20:02 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Why are you telling yourself these dumb things?
[2/21/2013 9:20:17 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: Because thats what these people treat me like!
[2/21/2013 9:20:22 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: Thats what I am to them.
[2/21/2013 9:20:27 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: ...And therefore, it must be true.
[2/21/2013 9:20:57 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: You shouldn't believe what you're told, about yourself.
[2/21/2013 9:21:09 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Nobody knows you, better than you. Think for a second.
[2/21/2013 9:21:15 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Are you really annoying?
[2/21/2013 9:21:27 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Are you a stalker?
[2/21/2013 9:21:30 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Do you stalk people?
[2/21/2013 9:21:55 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I don't think so.
[2/21/2013 9:22:32 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: I don't know.
[2/21/2013 9:22:36 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: Not anymore.
[2/21/2013 9:22:54 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Well, let's see, in all the time you've known me, I've summed together that, A
[2/21/2013 9:22:56 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: You're not a stalker.
[2/21/2013 9:23:01 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: B, you're not annoying.
[2/21/2013 9:23:17 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: C, you're a nice guy.
[2/21/2013 9:23:44 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And D, you're fun to be around in general.
[2/21/2013 9:24:22 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Stop being so hopeless, -everyone- deserves love, and happiness.
[2/21/2013 9:24:34 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Even your enemies.
[2/21/2013 9:24:56 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Stop holding a grudge against yourself for no reason, Zachary.
[2/21/2013 9:24:59 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Cheer up.
[2/21/2013 9:25:23 PM] Zachary Zakrzewski: I just feel like a failure, is all.
[2/21/2013 9:26:04 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: We all have our hardships, Zachary. Sometimes, we all feel low.
[2/21/2013 9:26:16 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: But, you know what I do when I'm starting to feel miserable?
[2/21/2013 9:26:17 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And wretched?
[2/21/2013 9:26:27 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And that there's nothing good about my future?
[2/21/2013 9:26:35 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I go to God.
[2/21/2013 9:26:46 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I think to myself, about things.
[2/21/2013 9:27:37 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I thank God for all the blessings I currently have.
[2/21/2013 9:27:40 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: And I move on.
[2/21/2013 9:30:18 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: I talk with friends, and think about the good in life.
[2/21/2013 9:31:58 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: Just aknowledge the fact that you're not a failure, Zachary.
[2/21/2013 9:32:13 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: A lot of people probably care about you.
[2/21/2013 9:32:16 PM] Tsukasa Hiiragi: A lot.


This is the conversation we had just a few hours ago. Excuse my laziness in not summarizing everything. I'm just recovering from late-night studying and might not be all there. I also hope I'm not over-reacting, either.

[ShoesandHats]

Hooh, boy. I don't usually like to get caught up in things like this, but I guess I'll try to give some advice. Whenever I feel insignificant, which is in no way the same as depressed, I just remind m myself that my death would be equally as worthless as if I continued living. I think about what my parents, siblings and what few friends I do have would think and feel. I think about the life I have ahead of me, and even if it was ultimately pointless in the end, at least I experienced something incredibly rare and fragile. Not that I ever really think about suicide. Sometimes I just think about the universe and the implications of various things.

I really hope I helped. Try to introduce him to some people who're easy to talk to and make friends with. Hopefully he'll see that no one is worthless.

[Fortport]

Hooh, boy. I don't usually like to get caught up in things like this, but I guess I'll try to give some advice. Whenever I feel insignificant, which is in no way the same as depressed, I just remind m myself that my death would be equally as worthless as if I continued living. I think about what my parents, siblings and what few friends I do have would think and feel. I think about the life I have ahead of me, and even if it was ultimately pointless in the end, at least I experienced something incredibly rare and fragile. Not that I ever really think about suicide. Sometimes I just think about the universe and the implications of various things.

I really hope I helped. Try to introduce him to some people who're easy to talk to and make friends with. Hopefully he'll see that no one is worthless.

Thank you, Shoes. I'll think over what you said.

[gimlet]

I'm not so great at it myself, and it's hard to do over the net, but I would like to add - point out to him that EVERYBODY is pretty screwed up, no matter what impression they're giving to other people.  So they will very very frequently misinterpret another person's actions, or even dump on them for their own reasons and not *necessarily* for anything the other person has actually done, or even phrase their communications in a reasonable proportion to the perceived "offense".

Plus it's an unproductive downward spiral to spend toooo much time thinking only about your past failures and problems - spend a pretty good amount of time focusing on the good  parts of life, the successes, things you are good at and enjoy, and a positive future.  Yeah after you get hammered by something you won't feel so great or like doing anything but wallowing, but I find if I force myself to do a few rounds of something positive and productive it eventually helps.

And for sure don't let other people define your life or even your moods, or stick their labels on you.   I think yeah *maybe* some part of it is my fault in the way I communicate or don't quite catch subtle feedback from other people and there are things I could and should improve, but enough people are screwed up/deliberately mean/insensible/going through stuff of their own that you'd constantly go nuts if you took to heart every single statement from every single other person.  And not every personality is easily compatible with every other - there are good fits and hopeless fits, and again you'd go nuts if you took too seriously the friction from something like that, or worse constantly tried to change to meet every expectation of every (or even any) other person.

Oh and it's 10x as bad when you're young and full of raging new hormones, having constant changes in life (leaving home, going to new school, schoolwork might actually be HARD now, suddenly have to worry about money to live and not just getting an allowance that it didn't matter if you wasted, etc), worried about fitting in, worried about the future, worried about girls, have multiple external authorities still forcing a lot of control (especially school and parents) and a constant media barrage pointing out problems and trying to induce fear and anxiety, etc and etc.   Just remember "this too shall pass" - and people do eventually get better at relationships with practice and experience.  "That which does not kill me makes me stronger".

But if he really sounded serious about suicide,  that'd be way over my level - professional therapist if at all possible...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He appears to be so mired in his past failures that he's started inventing additional failures without realizing it.

I reiterate that he needs professional therapy. You're right in that he sounds suicidal.

[Fortport]

He appears to be so mired in his past failures that he's started inventing additional failures without realizing it.

I reiterate that he needs professional therapy. You're right in that he sounds suicidal.

Thank you, SlimeHunt. But, professional therapy? I could probably convince him that he needs one, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll get up and go hire one.. I'll have to think over that. In the mean time, I just hope he stays content with life.

[Fortport]

I'm not so great at it myself, and it's hard to do over the net, but I would like to add - point out to him that EVERYBODY is pretty screwed up, no matter what impression they're giving to other people.  So they will very very frequently misinterpret another person's actions, or even dump on them for their own reasons and not *necessarily* for anything the other person has actually done, or even phrase their communications in a reasonable proportion to the perceived "offense".

Plus it's an unproductive downward spiral to spend toooo much time thinking only about your past failures and problems - spend a pretty good amount of time focusing on the good  parts of life, the successes, things you are good at and enjoy, and a positive future.  Yeah after you get hammered by something you won't feel so great or like doing anything but wallowing, but I find if I force myself to do a few rounds of something positive and productive it eventually helps.

And for sure don't let other people define your life or even your moods, or stick their labels on you.   I think yeah *maybe* some part of it is my fault in the way I communicate or don't quite catch subtle feedback from other people and there are things I could and should improve, but enough people are screwed up/deliberately mean/insensible/going through stuff of their own that you'd constantly go nuts if you took to heart every single statement from every single other person.  And not every personality is easily compatible with every other - there are good fits and hopeless fits, and again you'd go nuts if you took too seriously the friction from something like that, or worse constantly tried to change to meet every expectation of every (or even any) other person.

Oh and it's 10x as bad when you're young and full of raging new hormones, having constant changes in life (leaving home, going to new school, schoolwork might actually be HARD now, suddenly have to worry about money to live and not just getting an allowance that it didn't matter if you wasted, etc), worried about fitting in, worried about the future, worried about girls, have multiple external authorities still forcing a lot of control (especially school and parents) and a constant media barrage pointing out problems and trying to induce fear and anxiety, etc and etc.   Just remember "this too shall pass" - and people do eventually get better at relationships with practice and experience.  "That which does not kill me makes me stronger".

But if he really sounded serious about suicide,  that'd be way over my level - professional therapist if at all possible...

Well, gimlet, I've told him some of the points you brought up the first time we talked about it, but I worded it differently, simply. Thank you for your advice, I'll think about what you've said. And, to be a bit more informative, he's 23, and in college.

[Vector]

Then his college will likely have free or cheap mental health services available to students, and he's in the prime age for developing the Really Fucking Serious mental illnesses.  If you can, help him find university health services on the college webpage and convince him to go.

[Pnx]

Suicide can really be a tough issue to deal with, and although I think (fingers crossed), I've managed to deal with it and get over it, that doesn't necessarily mean I can help someone else.

It might help to understand what suicide is really about though. A lot of people seem to think that it's just about feeling worthless, or that life isn't worth living or they have some kind of crazy hard-wiring that makes them want to hurl themselves off a cliff like lemmings or something, which it is, to some extent. But more than anything else in my experience it's about feeling trapped and helpless. People feel trapped by the people around them, by their habits, by their relationships with other people, by the cycles they keep going through, by their lives...

If you want him to stop feeling suicidal, you're going to have to address what's making him feel trapped, which is honestly easier said than done. The situation may not be exactly what it seems, and even if you know what the root of the problem is, it's not necessarily that easy to deal with it (it could just be that he's been having some bad luck, or there could be deeper psychological issues of the bipolar variety or such). Talking to a therapist can be helpful because they can help you deal with this sort of stuff, or give you insights you wouldn't ordinarily have on your own.

I dunno, I'm not sure how helpful that was, but I wish you luck either way.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Thank you, SlimeHunt. But, professional therapy? I could probably convince him that he needs one, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll get up and go hire one.

He's openly contemplating killing himself. If you don't consider it that serious, allow me to reassure you that it is in fact That Serious.

I'll have to think over that. In the mean time, I just hope he stays content with life.

If he has clinical depression, and as far as I can tell it sounds like he does, staying content with his life is something he is not going to be able to do. Be it a neurochemical imbalance or some kind of psychological damage, something is wrong with him. You yourself said he never acts like this.