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[choppy]

This would be good. Like I said last time, people need objectives like, "You are highly addicted to Ambrosia Deus/Space Drugs and you need it desperately." or "You really need to acquire high value security items for sale, without arousing suspicion." Kinda, stuff like that, that will lead to people trying to con other people into stealing the stuff FOR them, so they'll give the other person their fix.

Hence why I'm saying that we need to get this background stuff out of the way before the round, so that we can set up some interesting conflicts/whatever. Plus some generic scummy backgrounds whoever just shows up out of the blue, of course.

or dwarf fortress style like build a mech or go crazy.

[BigD145]

This would be good. Like I said last time, people need objectives like, "You are highly addicted to Ambrosia Deus/Space Drugs and you need it desperately." or "You really need to acquire high value security items for sale, without arousing suspicion." Kinda, stuff like that, that will lead to people trying to con other people into stealing the stuff FOR them, so they'll give the other person their fix.

Hence why I'm saying that we need to get this background stuff out of the way before the round, so that we can set up some interesting conflicts/whatever. Plus some generic scummy backgrounds whoever just shows up out of the blue, of course.

or dwarf fortress style like build a mech or go crazy.

No?

No.

[USEC_OFFICER]

No?

No.

Hence why we do some preparations ahead of time.

[Jacob/Lee]

Well, as far as I can tell, Space Jam does play in the AI upload ambient noise. The more you know.

[Kaitol]

I don't understand how people are getting bored. EVERYONE has a job to do. So, you know. Do it. If you can't find a way to have fun in the job you're doing without griefing then... why are you playing it? People seem to expect the game to provide the fun, when this game is pretty much based around YOU making the fun.

[Knirisk]

I don't understand how people are getting bored. EVERYONE has a job to do. So, you know. Do it. If you can't find a way to have fun in the job you're doing without griefing then... why are you playing it? People seem to expect the game to provide the fun, when this game is pretty much based around YOU making the fun.

Because some jobs are repetitive, unfun, and for some reason only necessary to help others advance (FUCKING SHAFT MINER)?

Seriously. I'm not saying to go out and grief, but if you confine Shaft Miners to actually doing their job, then you might as well fuck the whole Shaft Miner job because nobody's gonna damn well do it. They spend all their time grinding away on that asteroid just so they can get some kickbacks from the QM or Science or whoever.

Some other kind of jobs are extremely bad as well. Rather than relying mostly on the skill of the person in question, they relies mostly on RNG. Xenobiologist comes to mind as extremely bad in this regard. I've mostly stopped playing with the slimes because it's random. Genetics also comes to mind, but I've been decently skilled in genetics since two or three years ago on Goonstation, so it's not too much of a problem because I understand the mechanics.

This is actually why I've taken so heartily to Quartermaster. You have a huge number of tools to get whatever your goal is. The only limit is the process and creativity with which you achieve it.

Also, games have been developed around the concept of being fun since the dawn of time. Ironically, that last statement is also why people grief. They're making their own fun because the game isn't providing it.

EDIT: Addendum to paragraphs 2 and 3. Some jobs even REQUIRE you to completely depend on others to do anything meaningful, like Roboticist. Or Botanist. How is that supposed to be fun?

[miauw62]

Depending on other people is the entire point of SS13. One person can't run the entire station. 

I do agree that it's not your fault if you get bored making burgers or picking rocks.

[TheBronzePickle]

Shaft miner can be made a little funner, at least. The Goonstation, back when I played it, had it being a lot more hazardous of a job, almost like a toned-down minesweeper. You had ores you had to work on getting better equipment to 'unlock' by being able to mine them (or mine them safely), hazards hidden in the rocks, obstacles that you had to find a way to bypass... It made the job a lot more of a challenge. Sure, it still might not be most people's cup of tea, but it was certainly better than just mining stuff and hoping you stumble across something interesting by chance.

I'd imagine other jobs could probably be 'funimized' too, if someone was willing to take the time to apply some concepts from other video games to them. Botany might do well playing like one of those time management games. Xenobio could probably be like a farming or pet raising sim. You go out, you find a game type that might fit, you find good examples of such games, figure out what they did right (or what everyone else did wrong) and you work it in.

Unfortunately, that's like designing several games at once, so maybe what we have is what we're stuck with.

[Evilsx]

I have to agree, the old shaft mining was ALOT better then this, Wish it was back

[miauw62]

Hey, mayby it could be done.

Also, about space jam in the AI chamber: I've known that for a long while.

[scrdest]

How about we make a big list of the jobs in need of fixing first, and then think why and how do they need fixing?

Couple of things come to mind when it comes to problematic jobs:

- Strictly RP jobs, such as Chaplain or Lawyer, only work in specific situations and with a decent population online, otherwise they are just glorified Assistants

- Shaft Miner, as mentioned, is a job fitting a prisoner. If someone could instruct a monkey how to use pickaxe, it might be very well done by Pun-Pun. All it involves is mindless clicking at tiles, basically Janitor without the hijinks potential of the latter.

- Jobs that involve just following the recipes with little potential for variety. Personally, as Chemist, I rarely follow orders to make X pills of Y chemical (AKA synthesize Twenty Bear Asses). It becomes fun when  you can create your own medicine cocktails. Or, as I found out lately, coming up with cigarette varieties (I hope to get in a round where a Botanist/Bartender is active to make fruit/alcohol flavored cigarettes).

For Chef, he could get some more condiments to be added to food, and little messages detailing the taste of the food based on them (say, you added some Salt = 'It feels a little salty', Salt content = 1/2 Nutriment content of food = 'It feels very salty'; hot and cold sauces are already added, but they could get some Sugar in a shaker and a bottle of Soy Sauce they now need to beg BOTH CHEMIST AND BOTANIST to get. Right now, food is just cramming Nutriment down your throat to be able to run at full speed, so cooking is just stuffing the right items into the microwave. I fear the Bartender is unsalvageable, and is mostly a RP-job.

- I am fine with jobs that involve RNG mostly, Xenobio could be more interesting if it was MORE randomized (this is, slime colors' effect being shuffled each round). Virology is rather fun, the problem might be that you need to be asocial to work as Virologist and it's quite time-consuming.

I actually wonder if I could try and add the taste effects...

[miauw62]

Machines that we can't make but should be makeable:

(Disposal) Pipe Dispenser (Engineering 3 Data Theory 2)
Microwave (Data Theory 2)
Grinder (Data Theory 2)
SMES (Power manipulation 2 Data Theory 3/4)
Chemmaster
Chef's Chemmaster
Chem dispenser
Mech charger (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2)
Gun chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2)
Cell chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2)

There's probably some I missed, but these are really blatant. I also added suggestions to what the research levels could be.

E: Also, there seems to be some sort of bug with the destructive analyzer and the sandbox spawning panel. Sometimes, whenever you open the RD console while the spawning panel was still open, you won't be able to deconstruct items and the spawning panel will show up.

[scrdest]

Machines that we can't make but should be makeable:

(Disposal) Pipe Dispenser (Engineering 3 Data Theory 2)
Microwave (Data Theory 2) - Electromagnetic Spectrum 1/2 would make more sense, it's a goddamn MICROWAVE, we've had them since 1937. 2 fits with Temperature Gun.
Grinder (Data Theory 2) - plus Materials 2, (analyze Scythe - blades for the Grinder )
SMES (Power manipulation 2 Data Theory 3/4) - additonally Materials 5, Engineering 3, Power up to 5 (on par with supercapacitors)

Chemmaster
Chef's Chemmaster
Chem dispenser - Materials 3, Engineering 3, Biology 2, Data Theory 2 - Chem Sprayer with Combat swapped for Data, basically, for all three.

Mech charger (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - Power Manipulation up to 3, with mech power circuit, Engineering 3, Materials 3
Gun chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - Power 3, Combat 3, Data Theory 2, Materials 3
Cell chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - again, up to 3 seems more in line with other discoveries there, perhaps 4 - it needs to work with things that already are power-based, Materials 3

You heavily overuse Data Theory, it's supposed to be about, well, information storage and transmission and AI-related tech. Added suggestions for replacements.

[Isdar]

Can an admin change the gamemode in Vactor's server to Extended or something? Its set to Malfunction now, which needs 20 players, which we dont have at the moment.

[miauw62]

Machines that we can't make but should be makeable:

(Disposal) Pipe Dispenser (Engineering 3 Data Theory 2)
Microwave (Data Theory 2) - Electromagnetic Spectrum 1/2 would make more sense, it's a goddamn MICROWAVE, we've had them since 1937. 2 fits with Temperature Gun.
Grinder (Data Theory 2) - plus Materials 2, (analyze Scythe - blades for the Grinder )
SMES (Power manipulation 2 Data Theory 3/4) - additonally Materials 5, Engineering 3, Power up to 5 (on par with supercapacitors)

Chemmaster
Chef's Chemmaster
Chem dispenser - Materials 3, Engineering 3, Biology 2, Data Theory 2 - Chem Sprayer with Combat swapped for Data, basically, for all three.

Mech charger (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - Power Manipulation up to 3, with mech power circuit, Engineering 3, Materials 3
Gun chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - Power 3, Combat 3, Data Theory 2, Materials 3
Cell chargers (Power Manipulation 2 Data Theory 2) - again, up to 3 seems more in line with other discoveries there, perhaps 4 - it needs to work with things that already are power-based, Materials 3

You heavily overuse Data Theory, it's supposed to be about, well, information storage and transmission and AI-related tech. Added suggestions for replacements.

Err, no? Data Theory is about making circuit boards.  Every circuit board has a data theory requirement. And most machines are built by data theory, altough I guess that would only count for the chemmasters, mech chargers and chem dispensers as cell chargers and gun chargers and microwaves and grinders aren't exactly machines.