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[10ebbor10]

DrPoo, this is a fight we're currently winning. Slow progress, when necessary, is preferable to sweeping changes which are subsequently overturned and then some. Said progress also lightens the landing of such. I understand why you're saying this, however. I have similar sentiments as to general apathy for the many, difficult problems we're facing because we appear to be comfortable.

I wouldn't even say it's a fight. It's an evolution, which started more than 2000 years ago.

Do note however, that these things will always exist.

[DrPoo]

Im against any sort of violence, any unnecessary violence at least.

[Detonate]

So. In some cultures the clitoris is removed on the female infant, the foreskin is cut off the male infant.
Some religions teach their believers to spread their religion and slay those who resists to convert. Some religions promise a paradise for those who kill the nonbelievers and are killed martyrs. I dont get it.

No religion tells their followers to slay those who resist to convert. No religion promotes a paradise for those who kill nonbelievers and die as martyrs.

We all know the effects of raising children in closed christian sects. Out comes a bigotted, spoiled, illogically thinking fuck that believes that the world revolves around their book.

My mom was one of those. Im the result of her. I have been banned from alot of places and muted here, for bigotry. I was a brainwashed little minion of the church, now i am free.

There are obvious consequences from teaching a person to ignore facts in favor of ancient fiction. We have dumbshits in the politics trying to ban homosexuality and censor culture. England is infested by Islam gangs enforcing the sexist, homophobic shariah law. Dont even get me started with those Taliban fuckheads.

Nobody is trying to ban homosexuality, at least outside of Africa. There are no Islamist gangs in England who enforce "sexist, homophobic Sharia law. Can you name any instances of Sharia law enforced in the Western world?

So, why is it so protected? If it was, say Pokemon teaching childrens that they should hate lesbians because they eat pokemons alive, or if Naruto taught kids that if they jump off tall buildings, Naruto would come flying and save them, we would have given those people hell. But because its a 4000 year old collection of books, its sacred and protected and you are an evil Stalin clone for wanting it banned.

Because freedom of religion is a fundamental human right, whether or not you think it's a 4000 year old collection of books.

I dont say religion should be banned, but rather that we ban acting on them and dedicating ourselves to them or jugding on them in situations where actual fact and reality is needed. Trekkies dont build monuments to Picard and wake everyone up in the morning by screaming prayers in Klingon and crusading against Star Wars fans. So why the fuck does religious people need to?

What's wrong with religious statues? Nobody wakes people up in the middle of the night screaming prayers. Religious people haven't gone on an actual crusade for about 741 years.

Why are homophobes and bigots allowed to exist? Why?

If you're a bigot and a homophobe and you're keeping it to yourself, it's still godawful but you aren't actually forcing it on anyone.

Why can it be that i got banned from a minecraft server for being transsexual? I didnt tell them, they tracked up that info. The owner said he was christian and that i was harmful to the younger users and offending his religion. They didnt advertise it as a christian server.

Just throwing this out here, im really confused and i just want to hear your guys opinions on it. I Dont want start a flamewar, just wanting to talk.

No anythingism intended. Sorry for any bad grammar, getting shoes thrown in your face can be rather disorienting. Not intending to insult anyone though the bad language might make it seem like that.

Sorry but you kind of did by insulting pretty much anyone who is a Christian or a Muslim.

[Loud Whispers]

No religion tells their followers to slay those who resist to convert. No religion promotes a paradise for those who kill nonbelievers and die as martyrs.

The Abrahamic religions do have a lot of verses about those who reject God being worse than murderers and so forth. And to kill them. As I said, it's really only the fundamentals who like to pretend this is moral. Everyone else left it in the past. But still today in heavily religious groups, anyone who does not conform to some deistic beliefs face great ostracizing.

Nobody is trying to ban homosexuality, at least outside of Africa. There are no Islamist gangs in England who enforce "sexist, homophobic Sharia law. Can you name any instances of Sharia law enforced in the Western world?

In the pursuit of political correctness one mustn't forget that there are things that deserve criticism. Or bury ones head in the sand.

Because freedom of religion is a fundamental human right, whether or not you think it's a 4000 year old collection of books.

As is the right to freedom of speech, sexual orientation and gender identity, reproductive rights, and family and marriage. I would not seek for the abolishment of religion, but I wouldn't base law on it either. Nor give it tax exemption or political power.

What's wrong with religious statues? Nobody wakes people up in the middle of the night screaming prayers. Religious people haven't gone on an actual crusade for about 741 years.

This one seems silly. I quite like religious icons.

Sorry but you kind of did by insulting pretty much anyone who is a Christian or a Muslim.

Generalizations are bad.

[Flying Dice]

Because freedom of religion is a fundamental human right, whether or not you think it's a 4000 year old collection of books.

Freedom of religion does not equate to the freedom to harm others, for much the same reason that freedom of speech doesn't allow for slander or libel. Your rights extend precisely as far as they can without significantly impacting the rights of others. When someone is using their religion as a shield while they persecute people, that is not acceptable.

[LordBucket]

Why are homophobes and bigots allowed to exist? Why?

What exactly do you propose be done? Shall we round them up into prison camps? Maybe execute them?

i just want to hear your guys opinions on it

My opinion is that this "anti bigotry" thing is a fad.

When I was a kid, homosexuls were socially unacceptable. Now, not "approving" of homosexuality is socially auncceptable. So we came full circle. *shrug*

I think you people who have it stuck in your head that people that people who dislike X are "morally repugnant" are doing basically the same thing as the people you complain about. Your privilege to be and act and do as you please extends no further than my private space. And that applies to me too. Just as it is improper for me to barge into your home and demand that you do what I want, it is improper for you to barge into my office and demand that I hire you.

Why can it be that i got banned from a minecraft server for being transsexual?

It's their server. They can do what they want with it, and they can accept or reject members as they please for whatever reason they wish. It's improper for you to expect them to do what you want, and their reasons for disapproving of you are not particularly important.

[penguinofhonor]

My opinion is that this "anti bigotry" thing is a fad.

When I was a kid, homosexuls were socially unacceptable. Now, not "approving" of homosexuality is socially auncceptable. So we came full circle. *shrug*

I think you people who have it stuck in your head that people that people who dislike X are "morally repugnant" are doing basically the same thing as the people you complain about. Your privilege to be and act and do as you please extends no further than my private space. And that applies to me too. Just as it is improper for me to barge into your home and demand that you do what I want, it is improper for you to barge into my office and demand that I hire you.

Considering stuff like that's been going on since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it's a pretty long-lived fad. Or do you just mean the more recent adamant support of gay/trans rights are just a fad?

[LordBucket]

Considering stuff like that's been going on since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it's a pretty long-lived fad. Or do you just mean the more recent adamant support of gay/trans rights are just a fad?

Things "going on" is not the same as widespread social acceptance. Even in the 80s, being gay was not something you would advertise. Whereas in recent years I've actually spoken with teenagers who have bragged to me that they're bisexual...but then when I ask them what it's like to take cock they get confused because "eww that's gross."

Because it didn't occur to them that being bi-SEX-ual would sort of imply that one has sex with both genders, and most likely they were simply making the claim because apparently it's "cool" now.

Yes, there have been civil rights activities for quite some time, but from my point of view those activities have overextended their target, and gays are now a socially protected class. For example, if a girl says "I don't like short guys." People who aren't short guys will generally be ok with that. If a person says "yeah, christians really annoy me" people who are not christian will generally be ok with that too.

...but say "I don't like gays" and a large percentage of people who are not gay will immediately attack you for it.

To the gay community, I acknowledge that some of you have had to deal with a lot of unjustified misery. However, I would offer you the advice that pendulums tend to swing. I think it would better for both you and everyone else if your sexual preferences were a thing of casual indifference to people rather than something they feel they need to protect.

[Skyrunner]

Note that there are no laws discriminating against short stature or Christianity.

[LordBucket]

Note that there are no laws discriminating against short stature or Christianity.

I'm sorry. Which country do you live in? Because you appear to be implying that there are laws discriminating against gays.

Or are you suggesting that financial incentives given to encourage certain, very specific behaviors that have been deemed to be conducive to a healthy society should necessarily be given gays too?

Think very carefully before you answer.

[Descan]

Most LGBT want that last bit? At least most that I've talked to.

Kind of sounds like the same rhetoric that says that multiculturalism / anti-racist laws are racist against white people. Or that feminism is sexist against men.


Edit: If you're talking about marriage and adoption in that last, very obfuscating post there, then yes? Yes they should be given to LGBT.

Why shouldn't they be?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Nothing to see here, just LB being himself.

Why are homophobes and bigots allowed to exist? Why?

What exactly do you propose be done? Shall we round them up into prison camps? Maybe execute them?

It's their server. They can do what they want with it, and they can accept or reject members as they please for whatever reason they wish. It's improper for you to expect them to do what you want, and their reasons for disapproving of you are not particularly important.

It's their country. They can do what they want with it, and they can accept or reject members as they please for whatever reason they wish. It's improper for you to expect them to do what you want, and their reasons for disapproving of you are not particularly important.

Gee, see how that worked? You just made the perfect pro-bigotry argument.

I find it a bit appalling that you can say that.

To the gay community, I acknowledge that some of you have had to deal with a lot of unjustified misery. However, I would offer you the advice that pendulums tend to swing. I think it would better for both you and everyone else if your sexual preferences were a thing of casual indifference to people rather than something they feel they need to protect.

Being intolerant to intolerance happens to be one of the only things that can change existing laws infringing on rights of minorities. We happen to be a government of the people, and opinions changing happens to be a big deal. It's akin to the 'n' word. The inherent intolerance may not be quashed, but to remove it from the public sphere is the best thing for a society, sorry.

Note that there are no laws discriminating against short stature or Christianity.

Or are you suggesting that financial incentives given to encourage certain, very specific behaviors that have been deemed to be conducive to a healthy society should necessarily be given gays too?

Think very carefully before you answer.

I'm sorry, but your disapproval of marriage has zero bearing on other's wish to be included in the right to marriage. I find it annoying that you find your personal opinion on marriage itself to be so important [an opinion I agree with, to boot!] as to deny others a right they want.

I'm sorry. Which country do you live in? Because you appear to be implying that there are laws discriminating against gays.

Here's one.

Swing away, LB.

[Flying Dice]

Note that there are no laws discriminating against short stature or Christianity.

I'm sorry. Which country do you live in? Because you appear to be implying that there are laws discriminating against gays.

Or are you suggesting that financial incentives given to encourage certain, very specific behaviors that have been deemed to be conducive to a healthy society should necessarily be given gays too?

Think very carefully before you answer.

Cough. Cough.

The majority of U.S. states (41) do not allow same-sex marriage. If you don't think that that is discrimination, you should probably take a long look at your worldview.

[Frumple]

An'there's always the whole visitation rights thing. Or the ineligibility to donate blood in some places. And the places that prohibit adoption. There's more junk like that if you go digging.

So, yeah. There's a non-negligable part of the USA that are specifically and legally discriminating against homosexual couples in ways outside of financial incentives. And similar stuff exists in plenty of other countries.

[penguinofhonor]

Yes, there have been civil rights activities for quite some time, but from my point of view those activities have overextended their target, and gays are now a socially protected class. For example, if a girl says "I don't like short guys." People who aren't short guys will generally be ok with that. If a person says "yeah, christians really annoy me" people who are not christian will generally be ok with that too.

...but say "I don't like gays" and a large percentage of people who are not gay will immediately attack you for it.

To the gay community, I acknowledge that some of you have had to deal with a lot of unjustified misery. However, I would offer you the advice that pendulums tend to swing. I think it would better for both you and everyone else if your sexual preferences were a thing of casual indifference to people rather than something they feel they need to protect.

I know you seem to be for allowing people to fire workers and kick people out of their homes for being gay/trans, but in my state all that is legal. And I personally think those rights make sexual preferences and gender identity something that I "need to protect".

I'll believe this "protected class" stuff when being anti-gay is responded to with more than largely ineffective boycotts, and it's not legally acceptable to ruin someone's life for being gay anymore.

Note that there are no laws discriminating against short stature or Christianity.

I'm sorry. Which country do you live in? Because you appear to be implying that there are laws discriminating against gays.

I'll quote from my own state constitution.

"Only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in Kentucky. A legal status identical or substantially similar to that of marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized."

Even if you're for civil unions, it disallows those as well.