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Total Members Voted: 4

[Rolepgeek]

I still want armor.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Thoughts:
We don't want to involve our servants in these dwarf meetings at all. They could very well be a major enemy to their civ, and even revealing we are their masters could sour relations permanently.

We could avoid squabbling in front of the council if we all agreed to only allow one of us to speak to them- if someone talks out of turn he gets put down on the spot by all the heads. If there's a problem head, he won't last more than the first few meetings. Inform the dwarves of this beforehand, and they'll expect it & be prepared as well.

Getting involved in politics is a harder nut to crack. We have the option of being a separate entity, easily manipulated and with little influence over the dwarven society, or we have the option of being directly involved in the danger & intrigue, closer to the manipulation but with a say in it & the society.
I'd say go for a seat on the council.

Back on lizolds: that said, we'll have to reveal our lizards & our position amongst them before we can hope to utilize them within this dwarven civilization. I'd say: if it really seems like a good idea to do so, (hehe, yay vague), once we hear about their thievery problems from them, announce you've made the connection and will stop the raids at once. Wait until after this point before letting them even glimpse a lizold in our presence.


So, what do we want, what can we offer? Ask for the seat on the council, non voting at first of course, and a place in their hall. We might have to gradually work on this. All we can really offer is our combat prowess. Perhaps solving thievery problems, (though that's a risky gambit).
Ask for lodging in their fortress, food & company. Offer our services in defending their, (no, our), home. Simple as that. (To avoid becoming a pet, make sure you get that company. Always keep our dignity paramount, and being civilized works as well.) Maintain we want to be treated as a member of their civ.

yes please to both armor & training!

[Dariush]

We could avoid squabbling in front of the council if we all agreed to only allow one of us to speak to them- if someone talks out of turn he gets put down on the spot by all the heads. If there's a problem head, he won't last more than the first few meetings. Inform the dwarves of this beforehand, and they'll expect it & be prepared the first few meetings.

Er, I thought we weren't allowed to communicate non-vocally. Or are we supposed to entrust the speaker-head to do everything on its own?

As to biting off problem heads on the spot, that might be considered over the top agressive by at least some dwarves.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Whispering amongst ourselves, (it would be while the dwarves are speaking to each-other, canonically).
Bah, they're a militaristic court, they know how it works. Especially if we inform them of our intentions, "Out of respect, there may be a one-time bloodshed as we staunch our...rebellious heads." They'll appreciate the rebellion part.

[Dariush]

No, bad. If we let them know we are literally torn with internal strife, they'll fear and respect us waaay less.

Uh, shouldn't this go into IC thread by this point?

[Rolepgeek]

So do you guys really think we'd be willing to tear off our own head(we feel the pain, remember?!) to stop him from talking,or that it would be that easy? We could inquire about the lizolds, ask if the dwarves have been having any problems. It would make for a wonderful opener to our agreement, us saying we'd 'take care of' them, when they're already under our sway.

[GreatWyrmGold]

We should definitely be getting involved in the politics. It makes us important and gives us a little power, but more importantly gives us a wider variety of things to do than "The dwarves have informed you of X. Go take care of it."

[Rolepgeek]

Eventually sure. But not right off the bat. We have to watch and wait, observe before we interfere. That's why I said to leave a clause about adding stuff later. We may not be a pet, but we sure as hell aren't strong enough to take ANY of their nobles if they brought their soldiers. Get into their good graces. Get into a position so that when we enter politics, we bring a lot of weight. Right now, we're just a pincushion for any third rate noble who can hire mercenary archers. Our lizolds suck at combat.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Our lizolds suck at combat.

Two things wrong with this statement:
1) Two priests managed to remove a head,
and 2) their combat ability was never rolled for.

Of those, the second is most signifigant.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Remember: I'm not suggesting we ask for an actual position (though I probably wouldn't be opposed to such). I am suggesting we ask for the right to speak at their meetings.

[Rolepgeek]

I thought we rolled for their martial capabilities.

Also, damnit GWG stop being right all the time!

I do pretty much agree with you, but I'm trying to play the 'other' intelligent and sensible head, meant almost to be your arrogant and douchey dark side(Auris, Goldie. Hmmmm...)). This means that I need to be correct sometimes, and that I need to disagree with you. I can't do that if you're consistently correct and well-informed!

EDIT: Also Goldie seems highly unwilling to compromise. And is misunderstanding the point I was making, for a lot of it.
SECOND EDIT: I think Goldie likes counting a bit too much.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, damnit GWG stop being right all the time!

I am SO sigging this.

I do pretty much agree with you, but I'm trying to play the 'other' intelligent and sensible head, meant almost to be your arrogant and douchey dark side(Auris, Goldie. Hmmmm...)). This means that I need to be correct sometimes, and that I need to disagree with you. I can't do that if you're consistently correct and well-informed!

I'm willing to admit to being wrong, but I typically avoid being wrong on purpose.
Maybe next time.

EDIT: Also Goldie seems highly unwilling to compromise. And is misunderstanding the point I was making, for a lot of it.

Well, what compromise is there between "Represent ourselves" and "Show up in person?"
And if I misunderstood something, please explain it even if you need to do it OOC!

[Rolepgeek]

Well, my character at first wanted to not do it at all. He tried to compromise by sending a representative. Now he's trying to compromise by sending a representative now, and showing up in person later.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Ah. I'll keep this in mind...I'd edit my last post, but it was kinda lengthy and it would be an extra pain on my tablet.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

No, bad. If we let them know we are literally torn with internal strife, they'll fear and respect us waaay less.

Uh, shouldn't this go into IC thread by this point?

Not if we let them know we have minor issues as a matter of respect- better that way than publicly embarrassing ourselves at their expense.
What would be the justification for non-heads discussing things in-character? I still claim this is more of a hive-mind discussion thread, (it would simplify a few things as far as diplomacy goes, but zanzet's stated our hive mind is limited to situational awareness, not thoughts/discussions).

@zanzet
Could we get a roll on standard lizold combat capability? You mentioned at least some of them weren't very skilled, martially.
Also, how hard are our scales?

I don't think we should ask for a seat on the council right off the bat- might be overstepping, depending on what their junta's like. First we have to ingrain ourselves as one of them, (which is starting to sound like GWG's plan from before..).
Also: don't bring the lizolds up unless they mention thievery. Certainly don't start negotiations with: "So, you know that horrific thief problem that's been plaguing you for years? Yeah....I'm kinda in charge of that. Don't worry though, I'll totally ask them to stop! Friends?"