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[Loud Whispers]

I find it hard to be too scared of this sort of claim - I don't think ISIS spokesmen are really reliable.

Oh by all means don't be scared, Europe sports some pretty powerful security bureaus and thousands of operatives does not an operation make. That comes later.

I think that this sort of statement is just them trying to fuel xenophobia in Europe. If refugees are treated badly, or Europeans become paranoid and there's an increase in anti-islamic prejudice, then it'll drive otherwise moderate muslims towards the extremists' position. Besides, a lot of the refugees will be ISIS' enemies fleeing them, and it'd very much be in their interests if we sent them back to Syria to be murdered.

And by coincidence this fits in with progressive narratives perfectly that the way to defeat ISIS is with tolerance and hugs. Security checks exist for a reason. Well, if you're in the Schengen area they existed, past tense. NOW IT'S ALL OVER FOR YOU BELGIUM

It doesn't seem like it'd make much sense for them to try to infiltrate significant numbers of militants in as refugees. After all, there are thousands of Europeans fighting for ISIS in Syria right now, and probably thousands more who are stuck at home because they can't get out there. We hear stuff all the time in the news about British nutjobs in Syria. If ISIS want militants in Europe, they could just tell some of their supporters over here to stay at home.

If you look at Libya for example, Bagdhadi told his Libyan supporters to focus on their homefront instead of the Syrian and Iraqi front. In the European case it makes perfect sense since if you've been following our British Jihadis, they've been making it absolutely clear they want to use the skills they've learned in Iraq and Syria in Britain. The ones stuck in Europe are quite worthless beyond sending money and spreading the word, because when it comes to actually planning and executing an attack and that's if they're even willing to - it's one thing to pay lip service to killing the West and it's another thing to try and kill the West. Not all of their European supporters are European fighters.
Fighters who have made their way to ISIS will have proven themselves on the battlefield, will have received training and will be able to in turn train others, will have their convictions validated by blood and need only return to their home countries to spread their influence [with the catch being getting past their home country's security checks]. From India to Britain Jihadis have been caught coming home with cash and knowledge because they were sent home by ISIS. The difference between the ones coming home and the ones staying at home is that the ones coming home actually got shit done and have higher capabilities to get shit done.
And in nations where people don't like getting beheaded, security checks exist. You'll have an easier time getting through if you say you're a Syrian refugee. With their guidance, the useless supporters stop being so useless.

Up to 1,300 European jihadists have already returned to the continent after fighting under the banner of ISIS according to 'cautious' estimates made by anti-extremism thinktank, the Tony Blair Faith Foundation.The foundation, founded by former UK prime minister Tony Blair, also believe that these returning fighters intend to wage jihad in Europe
"Returning foreign fighters are a potent force and a significant threat," Ed Husain, a senior advisor at the Foundation told Newsweek.
"As they meet other young Muslims in mosques or community centres they can portray themselves as returning heroes from the trenches of jihad in Iraq and Syria. These people have walked the walk, not just talked about it in abstract terms," Husain added.

They should splice ISIS with butter to make self-spreading toast. Better get extra tolerant for the cultural enrichment train choo choo

All in all I look forward to the day when Belgium has ISIS territories, they're already getting massacre threats just for prosecuting cheeki Islamist clerics
It would certainly make Belgium less boring, and it wouldn't be right for massive global change without Belgium (WWI and WWII, why not WWIII)

[notquitethere]

LW, the stupid thing about the student fees debacle is that the student loans aren't actually loans: they're de facto grants coupled with a fixed-term progressive graduate tax system. They don't even affect your credit rating. It's literally free money for students that you only pay back if you can afford it. Coupled with income assessed grants it's a great deal for poorer students. I certainly am never going to pay the loan off and I'm never going to be asked to.

If they'd just renamed the bloody things something more palatable they could have avoided this whole mess.

[Loud Whispers]

LW, the stupid thing about the student fees debacle is that the student loans aren't actually loans: they're de facto grants coupled with a fixed-term progressive graduate tax system. They don't even affect your credit rating. It's literally free money for students that you only pay back if you can afford it. Coupled with income assessed grants it's a great deal for poorer students. I certainly am never going to pay the loan off and I'm never going to be asked to.
If they'd just renamed the bloody things something more palatable they could have avoided this whole mess.

Sums it up pretty succinctly. Though I guess that's why Nick cannot into politics.

[Sinistar]

I think that this sort of statement is just them trying to fuel xenophobia in Europe. If refugees are treated badly, or Europeans become paranoid and there's an increase in anti-islamic prejudice, then it'll drive otherwise moderate muslims towards the extremists' position. Besides, a lot of the refugees will be ISIS' enemies fleeing them, and it'd very much be in their interests if we sent them back to Syria to be murdered.

And by coincidence this fits in with progressive narratives perfectly that the way to defeat ISIS is with tolerance and hugs. Security checks exist for a reason. Well, if you're in the Schengen area they existed, past tense. NOW IT'S ALL OVER FOR YOU BELGIUM

I'm all for some sorts of security checks but come now, Loud Whispers, no one is suggesting (at least in this thread?) we should be tolerant towards Daesh. What Nick K put forward is not only perfectly reasonable but sadly something we have seen materialize in recent times. Extremist, xenophobic far right has been gaining ground in Europe ever since the EU crisis, the migrant surge just adds fuel to their fire. I mean, damn, I live in a country that has yet to even have a taste of this whole migrant mess and I can already hear people talking about them like every non-European is literally 2.67 Hitler. Like, "all aboard the Nazi Satan Moslem Hyte train, next stop your job because they already tuck your social security and your virgin sister in their luggage while you weren't looking" and shit.

[Sheb]

On the other hand, taxes are unpopular, by presenting them as loans rather than a graduate tax, you can sell it more easily to middle-class voters.

[Vilanat]

Apparently, Saudi Arabia can logistically house 3 million refugees right at this instant.

They got a whole town made of air conditioned tents that are used for several days a year and the rest of the time sits empty. It would also be far more reasonable to direct all refugees to Saudi Arabia, not just because they share the same religion/language/culture and not just because it is far safer for the refugees to travel by a functioning bus from Jordan to Mina thus sparing them the dangers of the med sea, but because the cost of living in Saudi Arabia is far cheaper than in western europe and which enables the international Aid money to provide for many more refugees.

http://www.infowars.com/saudi-arabia-has-100000-empty-air-conditioned-tents-that-can-house-3-million-people-yet-has-taken-zero-refugees/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mina,_Saudi_Arabia

But well, as we know, Saudi Arabia is not willing to lift a finger for those refugees. sorry, silly me, i forgot their offer to fund 200 new mosques for the new influx of refugees coming to europe.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/saudi-offers-build-200-mosques-in-germany-for-syrian-refugees-605755.html

[Frumple]

share the same religion/language/culture

... and here we see one of the major contributing attitudes to why the western world has consistently buggered up their interactions with the middle east. If you actually believe saudi arabia shares the same religion/language/culture as all, or even a majority, of the folks trying to get into europe, your understanding of the middle east is flawed to the point of farce.

That the article in question suggest the same means it is pretty much useless, and presenting a picture of the situation in question so inaccurate as to be grossly misleading.

... to add to that, the suggestion that 100k tents sitting around, intended for use annually over a ~week long period, means a country has the logistics in place to support three million refugees indefinitely is so mindhumpingly stupid I don't even know how to properly respond...

Saudi Arabia could probably do more than they are (which puts them in line with basically everyone), but statements like that article is making are ridiculous.

[Antsan]

It reminds me of kindergarten when people use "but they're doing even less than us" as an excuse to not do more.

[scrdest]

I think that this sort of statement is just them trying to fuel xenophobia in Europe. If refugees are treated badly, or Europeans become paranoid and there's an increase in anti-islamic prejudice, then it'll drive otherwise moderate muslims towards the extremists' position. Besides, a lot of the refugees will be ISIS' enemies fleeing them, and it'd very much be in their interests if we sent them back to Syria to be murdered.

And by coincidence this fits in with progressive narratives perfectly that the way to defeat ISIS is with tolerance and hugs. Security checks exist for a reason. Well, if you're in the Schengen area they existed, past tense. NOW IT'S ALL OVER FOR YOU BELGIUM

I'm all for some sorts of security checks but come now, Loud Whispers, no one is suggesting (at least in this thread?) we should be tolerant towards Daesh. What Nick K put forward is not only perfectly reasonable but sadly something we have seen materialize in recent times. Extremist, xenophobic far right has been gaining ground in Europe ever since the EU crisis, the migrant surge just adds fuel to their fire. I mean, damn, I live in a country that has yet to even have a taste of this whole migrant mess and I can already hear people talking about them like every non-European is literally 2.67 Hitler. Like, "all aboard the Nazi Satan Moslem Hyte train, next stop your job because they already tuck your social security and your virgin sister in their luggage while you weren't looking" and shit.

Hell, there's a LOT of Poles making quote unquote jokes (and some of them even without that pretense) of putting ALL the Syrian immigrants into gas chambers/shooting/other pleasantness. The historical irony is lost on them.

And it definitely has the element of driving moderates away. Just from a purely cynical point of view, those who complain about decadence are usually those who are pissed off they can't have any themselves. Sure, there's always gonna be the edgelords who just want to fukdasystem and have an excuse to be violent assholes - but those would generally drift towards something.

[SirQuiamus]

...
And by coincidence this fits in with progressive narratives perfectly that the way to defeat ISIS is with tolerance and hugs. Security checks exist for a reason.
...

I'm a fully-indoctrinated progressive, and the only "progressive narrative" that I've gathered from the progressive media goes something like this: "There's no way to defeat ISIS head-on in this geopolitical situation, but security checks and dystopian surveillance will (hopefully) defeat most of their infiltration attempts, or at least prevent them from launching large-scale attacks against our society. The authorities are already doing everything they can to protect us, and we should rather worry about protecting the people fleeing from the mindless violence of ISIS."

Yes, there are fearsome bloodthirsty enemy combatants lurking among the flood of refugees and all non-Muslim Europeans are living in mortal fear et cetera et cetera, but is there anything more we could do to weed out the infiltrators, apart from building Trump Walls^TM and leaving everyone in the middle of the desert in order to "let God sort them out?" (...and then EU was the terrorists.)* Being "all humane and shit" makes things oh-so-very-complicated, but what can we do? Srsly, Universal Human Rights is the strongest flavour of Kool-Aid, and we just have to deal with the cognitive dissonance somehow.


_{*And besides, even if we did have 30-foot concrete walls with armed DDR guards, I don't think it would be enough to keep out a hundred thousand desperate people.}

[SirQuiamus]

http://www.infowars.com

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sheb]

_{*And besides, even if we did have 30-foot concrete walls with armed DDR guards, I don't think it would be enough to keep out a hundred thousand desperate people.}

For some reason, the first picture that crossed my mind was that of guards dancing trying to get perfect combos.

[Frumple]

I'unno, a flesh wall of guards gyrating in various states of undress might actually deter more incoming than a concrete wall. Could be a good idea.

[scriver]

It reminds me of kindergarten when people use "but they're doing even less than us" as an excuse to not do more.

Except, you know, we're already doing a whole fucking lot to begin with.

[Antsan]

It reminds me of kindergarten when people use "but they're doing even less than us" as an excuse to not do more.

Except, you know, we're already doing a whole fucking lot to begin with.

We're doing not nearly as much as we could, clinging onto petty luxuries while moaning about "spoiled" migrants.