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[Helgoland]

I was speaking about the reaction. You labeled my reaction to Polish paramilitaries as very Russian, when the West has had the same reaction to Ukrainian paramilitaries, too. Double think much?

I... don't remember anyone being glad that Right Sector would enable Ukraine to do cross-border operations while maintaining plausible deniability. The most that was heard around here - and even this is far from universally accepted - was that the Ukrainian militias could help Ukraine, which has a poorly trained and badly equipped military, hold out against Russian agression, which is very dissimilar to what you said. And come to think of it, nobody would have phrased this thought using the word 'assets'.

[Sergarr]

The "cross-border" in case of Right Sector is "Ukraine-Russia" border, or specifically, Crimean one. Since at least some of Right Sector right now are in semi-opposition to the current government, any of their actions in Crimea can be explained as their own initiative, hence "deniable assets".

I guess I was wrong when I've said that this view is very Western.

[Helgoland]

Ya, inner-Ukrainian operations don't count as "cross-border". 'Nuff said.

[Sergarr]

Ya, inner-Ukrainian operations don't count as "cross-border". 'Nuff said.

But Crimea isn't inner Ukraine... it's Russia. Duh.

[Culise]

Ya, inner-Ukrainian operations don't count as "cross-border". 'Nuff said.

But Crimea isn't inner Ukraine... it's Russia. Duh.

De facto due to military force, yes.  Very few countries recognize that border, however.  The US, Europe, Japan, and the usual suspects have actively rejected the Russian annexation of Crimea.  China and India have both been more ambiguous, but both have also shied away from formal recognition and active support.  Only a handful of countries - Afghanistan, Cuba, Syria, Nicaragua, Venezuela, North Korea, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Transnistria - have definitely recognized the Russian annexation.  Maybe Belarus if you interpret his words right; I would suspect Lukashenko is a bit careful about saying anything that could come back to bite him, hand-delivered by little green men, if the mood between Minsk and Moscow ever shifts again.  In other words, as far as most countries are concerned, including those people themselves, it isn't a cross-border activity de jure. 

Now, if you had Right Sector invading Rostov or something, that'd be something else, but it's rather patently obviously *not* a "duh" situation, and its rather disingenuous for you to assert it unequivocally as such.  It's as "cross-border" as Ukrainian operations against the DNR (to borrow the tongue-in-cheek comment from earlier) or vice versa, and distinctly less so than, say, Russian operations against Crimea.

[Loud Whispers]

Europ thred poll on crimea status when?

[Guardian G.I.]

- Across what border has Right Sector been operating?

Back in July, they were reportedly camping at the Ukrainian side of the Mokrany border crossing on the road E85 M12 leading to Brest, Belarus.

[Sergarr]

Ya, inner-Ukrainian operations don't count as "cross-border". 'Nuff said.

But Crimea isn't inner Ukraine... it's Russia. Duh.

De facto due to military force, yes.  Very few countries recognize that border, however.  The US, Europe, Japan, and the usual suspects have actively rejected the Russian annexation of Crimea.  China and India have both been more ambiguous, but both have also shied away from formal recognition and active support.  Only a handful of countries - Afghanistan, Cuba, Syria, Nicaragua, Venezuela, North Korea, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Transnistria - have definitely recognized the Russian annexation.  Maybe Belarus if you interpret his words right; I would suspect Lukashenko is a bit careful about saying anything that could come back to bite him, hand-delivered by little green men, if the mood between Minsk and Moscow ever shifts again.  In other words, as far as most countries are concerned, including those people themselves, it isn't a cross-border activity de jure. 

Now, if you had Right Sector invading Rostov or something, that'd be something else, but it's rather patently obviously *not* a "duh" situation, and its rather disingenuous for you to assert it unequivocally as such.  It's as "cross-border" as Ukrainian operations against the DNR (to borrow the tongue-in-cheek comment from earlier) or vice versa, and distinctly less so than, say, Russian operations against Crimea.

Right Sector would-be operations on Crimean territory would be de-facto cross-border operations because there's a border between Crimea and Ukraine staffed by Russian and Ukrainian border guards, respectively. It won't magically turn into "inner Ukraine" operations because of what other countries think about legitimacy.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Heh, special operations in Russia is not something that any Ukrainian forces would ever do, right? We all know that it never happened and will never happen again. *smiles mysteriously*

As for doing anything in Crimea... What for?

[Sergarr]

Heh, special operations in Russia is not something that any Ukrainian forces would ever do, right? We all know that it never happened and will never happen again. *smiles mysteriously*

I agree, special operations in Ukraine is not something that any Russian forces would ever do, too. Totally.

As for doing anything in Crimea... What for?

Killing pro-Russian collaborationists and Russian-appointed administration, no?

[Loud Whispers]

Heh, special operations in Russia is not something that any Ukrainian forces would ever do, right? We all know that it never happened and will never happen again. *smiles mysteriously*

As for doing anything in Crimea... What for?

Reclaim the Crimea? Blow up Russian ships? Not much else to o

[smjjames]

Europ thred poll on crimea status when?

I think it did back when the crisis happened?

Although it was on the Ukraine-Russian threads that popped up (and kept imploding) rather than the Europol thread.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think Crimea should be handed back to its rightful owners. I mean, of course, the Scythian Amazons

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Killing pro-Russian collaborationists and Russian-appointed administration, no?

One quarter of our parliament are  pro-Russian collaborationists. As well as so many other persons. Starting from Kyiv will be a more logical route for Right Sector


I find it worrisome that Russian start talking about Right Sector in Crimea. Sergarr is the fifth Russian I hear it from must be Russian media related. Crimean economy is slowly collapsing and Russians may distract local population with pseudo Right Sector terror. 

[scriver]

I though Xena was Greek. Can Feta into Crimea?