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[Sheb]

Oh, I was going to post that. 11 death, apparently 2 or more people barged into the office with assault rifles and manage to escape before the police arrived. Some witness report that the attackers shouted "The prophet is avenged", which make sense as Charlie Hebdo was known for printing a great many cartoons mocking Islam. (And everything else too).

Well, this sucks.

[Sergarr]

This is going to strengthen the "anti-Islamisation" movements in Europe...

[Antsan]

This is going to strengthen the "anti-Islamisation" movements in Europe...

Probably.
I think of this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2939
Only the two groups aren't only shouting at each other.

[Vilanat]

Their latest "islam mocking" caricature was of an Islamic State guy cutting muhammad head off. muslims should praise that caricature that is basically pro Islam (Or at least, draws a clear distinction between Islam and Islamic State), but, well, it might be that those were terrorists that are pro Islamic State, which then makes sense.

https://arunwithaview.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/charlie-hebdo-on-isis/

Check out the prophecy at the bottom paragraph:
"Somehow I think security will be reinforced outside Charlie Hebdo’s office in the 11th arrondissement."

[10ebbor10]

2 police agents were killed in the attack, so the office was guarded (as it has been since they printed a few muhammed cartoons a few years back).

[Owlbread]

BBC was hilariously partial to the No campaign. I remember almost putting a foot through my TV once they had Sturgeon talk for 5 minutes about independence while being shouted over by this newscaster the whole time, while hundreds of 'No thanks' banners were in the background. Then right after they had this 10-min segment of a paid actor walking around in a fucking university, wearing a suit and waxing lyrical about how the union is sacred and without England Scotland would have been taken over by terrorists (WTF?)

Everyone in the room was pure raging. I don't watch BBC anymore tbh.

Yeah. This is the kind of thing that really got people's backs up - it was pretty constant. It's not the kind of stuff you see in the actual online articles (maybe they have different editors there) but in terms of actual political TV reporting they were very partial. Their interviewers tended to be quite partial too.

Spoiler: Rant about political connections of journalists (click to show/hide)

It's a tough one because normally when they'd be doing coverage of UK general elections and the usual kind of politics pre-2011 they'd have an almost equal representation of political journalists and reporters who were ex-Tories (Political Editor Nick Robinson, Daily Politics host Andrew Neil), ex-Labour (Andrew Marr) and ex-Lib Dem (John Curtice I think) - that used to be enough to ensure balance. The problem is every single one of those parties are Unionist. The majority of political journalists - including editors and so on - are failed politicians/activists, from what I can tell; the political equivalent of brown dwarf stars, stunted in development. If they're not failed politicians they're either married (Jackie Bird) or born into the political world like Sarah Smith at the BBC, former UK Labour leader John Smith's daughter. Nearly everyone, with few exceptions, has some kind of bias and at the BBC they're pretty much all Unionist. It just comes with the territory, and what would have worked a few years ago to ward off bias accusations doesn't work anymore in this new era of a more Europeanised form of politics in Britain where we have lots of parties and everything is scrutinised by social media.

Paris in terror.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/07/shooting-paris-satirical-magazine-charlie-hebdo

I don't know why Islamists didn't start doing this sooner. Rather than sending young men in to sacrifice themselves in bomb attacks you can terrorise Europeans far more with gun fire from illegally acquired weapons - and you can even get away sometimes then come back and do a suicide bombing or join IS in the Middle East. It's much easier to get something like an AK on the black market in Europe than people realise, the only thing that has really protected us has been the stupidity of the terrorists. If they start getting smart like the IRA we would be in a hell of a position.

Their latest "islam mocking" caricature was of an Islamic State guy cutting muhammad head off. muslims should praise that caricature that is basically pro Islam (Or at least, draws a clear distinction between Islam and Islamic State), but, well, it might be that those were terrorists that are pro Islamic State, which then makes sense.

https://arunwithaview.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/charlie-hebdo-on-isis/

No. Virtually no Muslims, even moderate, would support that image because it's an image of the Prophet. People are funny about the Ottoman portrayals of Muhammad and they're actually very flattering and pleasant. That's a Simpsons-like caricature of their holiest figure getting his head cut off.

[Phmcw]

2 police agents were killed in the attack, so the office was guarded (as it has been since they printed a few muhammed cartoons a few years back).

Nope, they were first responders. I don't think that kind of attack was actually taken seriously.

A loony with an axe suddently discovering a burning passion for Ismamist terrorism after his 15em long term visit in a psychiatric hospital yes, but not an attack in the middle of the day by several well armed men.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I don't know why Islamists didn't start doing this sooner.

My assumption is a fear of retaliation. I mean real retaliation with hundreds of random European Muslims dead. They judge by themselves, don't forget that.

[Owlbread]

My assumption is a fear of retaliation. I mean real retaliation with hundreds of random European Muslims dead. They judge by themselves, don't forget that.

They do but radical Islamists were happy to use suicide bombers. Why not use those carefully trained cells like the IRA did, operating in a single area and doing whatever they could? I know the objective is to shock and instill terror with huge numbers of casualties in a civilian area, while the IRA were primarily trying to kill UK security services one or two at a time in an attempt to drive them out of Ireland. The IRA could run up in the street and shoot a police officer at close range with a pistol then disappear without getting caught. Islamists have different objectives.

[Vilanat]

No. Virtually no Muslims, even moderate, would support that image because it's an image of the Prophet. People are funny about the Ottoman portrayals of Muhammad and they're actually very flattering and pleasant. That's a Simpsons-like caricature of their holiest figure getting his head cut off.

If that's true, and i very much doubt so, then there is no big difference between "Muslims" and Islamic state muslims. if a man can't tolerate a caricature that actually mocks an organization that is destroying his religion's reputation just because it portraits his prophet in a funny way, then he is just as an extremist.

Warning. very hard watching material

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9ZRvCIfTAE

These are trained, experienced, cold blooded killers. most probably Islamic State terrorists coming home after a tour in Iraq/Syria.

My assumption is a fear of retaliation. I mean real retaliation with hundreds of random European Muslims dead. They judge by themselves, don't forget that.

They do but radical Islamists were happy to use suicide bombers. Why not use those carefully trained cells like the IRA did, operating in a single area and doing whatever they could? I know the objective is to shock and instill terror with huge numbers of casualties in a civilian area, while the IRA were primarily trying to kill UK security services one or two at a time in an attempt to drive them out of Ireland. The IRA could run up in the street and shoot a police officer at close range with a pistol then disappear without getting caught. Islamists have different objectives.

Its far easier to just strap a poor kid and send him to blow himself up than send trained operatives that know how to shoot and kill effectively. now that they basically have freedom of movement into europe thanks to Turkey, they are not short on terrorists trained in real battlefields.

[Phmcw]

More to the point, Islamic terrorism has largely been created those last years.

9/11 was an huge advertising coup, showing that they were "stronk" and could give American a bllody nose. Most of the kids in the gettho don't follow Islam exept by not eating pork (they sure drink alcohol), but they are bored out of their mind and have very few prospects. And with rather good reason : education level is rather abysmal in there.
It's a social problem that is beginning to fester because it was left unattendded. Islamism is just a symptom.

[smjjames]

My assumption is a fear of retaliation. I mean real retaliation with hundreds of random European Muslims dead. They judge by themselves, don't forget that.

They do but radical Islamists were happy to use suicide bombers. Why not use those carefully trained cells like the IRA did, operating in a single area and doing whatever they could? I know the objective is to shock and instill terror with huge numbers of casualties in a civilian area, while the IRA were primarily trying to kill UK security services one or two at a time in an attempt to drive them out of Ireland. The IRA could run up in the street and shoot a police officer at close range with a pistol then disappear without getting caught. Islamists have different objectives.

Why are you even supporting terrorism?

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: In reply to Vilanat (click to show/hide)

If that's true, and i very much doubt so, then there is no big difference between "Muslims" and Islamic state muslims. if a man can't tolerate a caricature that actually mocks an organization that is destroying his religion's reputation just because it portraits his prophet in a funny way, then he is just as an extremist.

I think there is a difference between being offended on a religious basis and killing someone due to them offending you on a religious basis. You understand of course that I find it all very ridiculous too (with regard to any religion I feel this way), but Muslims have a particular issue with the visual representation of certain people. There are no images or portraits of people or animals in mosques for this reason - I can't remember exactly what the reason is but there's something about any depiction of a person being sinful in a house of God.

These are trained, experienced, cold blooded killers. most probably Islamic State terrorists coming home after a tour in Iraq/Syria.

I wonder if we will see something like this after all in the UK.

Its far easier to just strap a poor kid and send him to blow himself up than send trained operatives that know how to shoot and kill effectively. now that they basically have freedom of movement into europe thanks to Turkey, they are not short on terrorists trained in real battlefields.

Are you sure these guys are coming through Turkey? But yes, I can see the point but with fairly rudimentary training one person with a gun can cause terrible havoc. We've seen that in many shootings in the UK pre and post gun-ban and in the US it's not like every one of these spree killers has undergone military training. Our last spree killer, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people in Cumbria in 2010 with a double barreled shotgun he used for hunting. He was just a taxi driver.

Why are you even supporting terrorism?

Excuse me? How in god's name am I supporting terrorism?

[smjjames]

Spoiler: In reply to Vilanat (click to show/hide)

If that's true, and i very much doubt so, then there is no big difference between "Muslims" and Islamic state muslims. if a man can't tolerate a caricature that actually mocks an organization that is destroying his religion's reputation just because it portraits his prophet in a funny way, then he is just as an extremist.

I think there is a difference between being offended on a religious basis and killing someone due to them offending you on a religious basis. You understand of course that I find it all very ridiculous too (with regard to any religion I feel this way), but Muslims have a particular issue with the visual representation of certain people. There are no images or portraits of people or animals in mosques for this reason - I can't remember exactly what the reason is but there's something about any depiction of a person being sinful in a house of God.

These are trained, experienced, cold blooded killers. most probably Islamic State terrorists coming home after a tour in Iraq/Syria.

I wonder if we will see something like this after all in the UK.

Its far easier to just strap a poor kid and send him to blow himself up than send trained operatives that know how to shoot and kill effectively. now that they basically have freedom of movement into europe thanks to Turkey, they are not short on terrorists trained in real battlefields.

Are you sure these guys are coming through Turkey? But yes, I can see the point but with fairly rudimentary training one person with a gun can cause terrible havoc. We've seen that in many shootings in the UK pre and post gun-ban and in the US it's not like every one of these spree killers has undergone military training.

Why are you even supporting terrorism?

Excuse me? How in god's name am I supporting terrorism?

You're saying that they should act like the IRA. Maybe it's just me being early morning brain.

[Owlbread]

You're saying that they should act like the IRA. Maybe it's just me being early morning brain.

It is. I don't support the IRA, nor do I support Islamic extremists. I'm just making a comment in the same vein as something like "I don't know why the Nazis had to invade the USSR - why couldn't they just XYZ". I'm also commenting on how screwed we are if terrorists decide to make European streets open war zones - like the IRA did. They intentionally created the impression of a warzone by putting up home-made road signs like this:

Spoiler: It seemed as though an entire area was no longer safe (click to show/hide)