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[TD1]

So?  The point is the Orange men did not do it, but some Scottish thugs.

[Owlbread]

So?  The point is the Orange men did not do it, but some Scottish thugs.

Though it has not been confirmed, what seems to have happened is two men were having an argument while the Orange Walk went past and threw a bottle. It hit the girl. The detective in me deduces that the argument probably had something to do with the walk.

[TD1]

It's rather unpleasant when those with an irrational hatred of a marching band resort to violence, I quite agree.

[Owlbread]

It's rather unpleasant when those with an irrational hatred of a marching band resort to violence, I quite agree.

But I'm not assuming anything here - if the argument had something to do with the walk, the person who threw the bottle could have been a Rangers or Celtic fan. Nobody knows and it's not been reported, that's probably a good thing.

Here's an extract from a blog by the Glaswegian comedian Limmy who was raised in a Protestant, Rangers-supporting Loyalist-leaning working class family:

Spoiler: Limmy on the Orange Walk (click to show/hide)

I was meant to be a Rangers supporting Protestant that believed that Northern Ireland should be forever British. Until I realised that I’ve never actually liked football; I can’t be a Protestant if I don’t believe in God; and that I don’t think it’s right to chop off the top of another person’s country and claim it as your own, whatever way you look at it.

But for some reason, I held onto a mild liking of the Orange Walk. I remember some of my uncles being in it when I was young, seeing them walking in their suits and sashes, as part of this loud as fuck and long as fuck procession. I must have felt proud that I was in some way related to this powerful presence that had brought the traffic to a standstill.

And I held onto that right into my mid-twenties, I’m ashamed to say. Despite managing to deprogramme myself from all the other shite that was fed to me, I didn’t bother with this one. Until the Orange Walk themselves helped me to see the light.

They were doing a mini-walk in Yorkhill, round from where I lived, and I was on the pavement with my bike, waiting to cross. They were taking ages. I saw a gap, a large gap between one group walking and the one behind, and I went for it. I was halfway across the road on a moving bike, plenty of room on all sides, and only a second or two from reaching the other pavement. But a few of the cunts from the front row of the rear procession weren’t having it. They raced forward, grabbed me, said “Ye cannae dae that, ye cannae cut between the walks” or some shite like that, and dragged me back the way I came, with my bike scraping across the ground between my legs.

I stood there on the pavement in disbelief, as one cunt after another walked past, showing their fucking contempt. There were cunts in the band having a laugh at the fanny on the bike that got dragged off the road, and there were cunts that didn’t see the funny side as much and just growled at me. And then there were the cunts in the suits. I remember these sneering bastards keeping their heads faced forward, but looking at me out of their corner of their eyes, only a foot or two away from me.

I sensed one collective thought that they perhaps all shared: “Probably a Fenian”.

And that’s when it clicked for me. That’s when my eyes were opened. For years I had seen those walks in Northern Ireland where families would be barricaded into their own street, and I never gave two fucks.

And there I was, standing on a pavement that I was dragged back to, after being barred from crossing a street that was round the corner from my fucking flat, the place where I fucking live, by these sneering, growling cunts. There I was fucking outraged. Fucking pumping with adrenalin, furious.

I’m ashamed that it took that happening to me to snap me out of my acceptance for the Orange Walk. I should have been able to snap myself out of it purely with thought, and I should be able to empathise with other cunts’ situations without something similar happening to me. But there you go, that’s what it took.

I realise I should explain to anyone reading this that his language is somewhat NSFW in places but that's how many Glaswegian men talk (including my own family) when they're not trying to be polite. For any non-British, non-Australian/New Zealander people when he says the C word it is relating to men, not women. That is the way it is in Scotland.

[TD1]

"The detective in me deduces that the argument probably had something to do with the walk."

I was drawing attention to how it could be either side of said argument.

Edit: You really like to edit your posts, don't you?

Give me a minute to read through that, why don'tcha.

[Owlbread]

Edit: You really like to edit your posts, don't you?

Give me a minute to read through that, why don'tcha.

I do, I always think of better things to say after I've already posted.

[TD1]

Edit: You really like to edit your posts, don't you?

Give me a minute to read through that, why don'tcha.

I do, I always think of better things to say after I've already posted.

Not much better of a thing to say, I would imagine. He seems to be piling hate on the orange parade that...didn't want him cycling between the groups? And I don't care if you say "That's just how it is in Scotland." Anyone who speaks in such a way I can't help but not take them as seriously as if they weren't being blatantly insulting for what appears to be no reason other than that, as the orange men walked past they looked at the cyclist with what could have been curiosity? You know, the type of curiosity you'd have if the cyclist had just cut in front of you?

"Plenty of room on all sides, and only a second or two from reaching the other pavement. But a few of the cunts from the front row of the rear procession weren’t having it. They raced forward, grabbed me, said “Ye cannae dae that, ye cannae cut between the walks” or some shite like that, and dragged me back the way I came, with my bike scraping across the ground between my legs."

Plenty of room on all sides? Only a second from being on the other side?  So, these orange men defied physics and leapt forward to grab him while he was cycling with "Plenty of room?"

Anyway, let's go back to the start. I don't like football. I'm an agnostic. And I want the Union. I see no conflict between these views, in fact fail to see how football and religion are deciding factors for him. Anyway. "And that I don’t think it’s right to chop off the top of another person’s country and claim it as your own, whatever way you look at it."

Hm? Who claimed it as their own? There was a vote, ya know buddy, in which people who's families had been there longer than Americans had been in America voted. If it were a forced "Chopping" that would be a different matter.

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: In reply to TheDwarfyOne (click to show/hide)

And I don't care if you say "That's just how it is in Scotland." Anyone who speaks in such a way I can't help but not take them as seriously as if they weren't being blatantly insulting

Would you like me to send you a version with the swearwords omitted? I could exchange the word "c***" with "gentleman" if you wish.

for what appears to be no reason other than that, as the orange men walked past they looked at the cyclist with what could have been curiosity? You know, the type of curiosity you'd have if the cyclist had just cut in front of you?

I think from what he was saying the looks he was getting didn't look like looks of curiosity. If I'm curious about a person I don't laugh or sneer at them.

Anyway, let's go back to the start. I don't like football. I'm an agnostic. And I want the Union. I see no conflict between these views, in fact fail to see how football and religion are deciding factors for him.

Please don't be daft, football, religion and politics form the basis of the entire sectarian divide in Glasgow. Northern Ireland just amplifies the religion and politics. That said many people on both sides of the conflict nowadays have isolated politics as their own personal reasoning, excising religion and football.

Anyway. "And that I don’t think it’s right to chop off the top of another person’s country and claim it as your own, whatever way you look at it."

Hm? Who claimed it as their own? There was a vote, ya know buddy, in which people who's families had been there longer than Americans had been in America voted. If it were a forced "Chopping" that would be a different matter.

He's talking about the plantations and the colonization of Northern Ireland as opposed to the vote at the turn of the century.

Speaking of Afro-Scottish history, there's actually a Yes Scotland group now called "Africans for Independence". Here is their campaign logo:

Spoiler: Large image warning (click to show/hide)

I really want it on a T-Shirt.

This is an extract from an article in the Herald, a Scottish newspaper:

The group says that there is a strong support for independence among the community engendered by their countries' struggles against colonial rule.

Group convener Graham Campbell said: "We have around 100 people altogether in the group and more than 800 likes on Facebook already.

"What we found is that there are a lot of Africans in Scotland who did not know they are allowed to vote, but we worked out that most of them will be able to. Many are not registered so we are working to getting them to do that as our first goal."

Campbell added: "Many of the African diaspora lean towards supporting Yes Scotland because they all had their own independence movements at one time or another.

"There is also a lack of political representation for African people in Scotland. Yes Scotland have been very supportive of our group.

"The chief concerns among people would be the issue of status and what would happen to their British passport, but we have reassured them that nothing would change on that front and they would still be eligible to stay."

Africans for an Independent Scotland was formed in April and officially launched last week at an event attended by Yes campaign chief Blair Jenkins

Secretary Chiminezie Umeh, formerly from Nigeria, is passionate in his belief that an independent Scotland would go from strength to strength.

He said: "The right to be self-sufficient and self-reliant is a fundamental human right and I believe that exercising these rights has nothing to do with who your neighbours are.

"Scotland is a home to me now. I have lived here for seven years and my children were born here. I want this to be the future for my kids."

The African population of Scotland is rising very quickly. I know many immigrants are coming from Ghana and Gambia but we are also trying to strengthen links with Malawi for historical reasons. I think it's because Malawi is the only black-majority country with strong links to Scotland largely unrelated to slavery; it was established as a British protectorate by Scottish missionaries.

[TD1]

"Would you like me to send you a version with the swearwords omitted? I could exchange the word "c***" with "gentleman" if you wish."
Too late now, I'm afraid. He's already branded in my mind as an ignorant, bitter lout.

"I think from what he was saying the looks he was getting didn't look like looks of curiosity. If I'm curious about a person I don't laugh or sneer at them."
We have his word that the Orange men laughed maliciously at him? They stopped playing their instruments for the express purpose of sneering, glaring, and he just knows they were all simultaneously thinking "Fenian?" His wording puts him forward as embittered, and he has either greatly exaggerated or out right lied about "plenty of room." This from a comedian, whose job it is to take reality and twist it into something else?

"Please don't be daft, football, religion and politics form the basis of the entire sectarian divide in Glasgow. Northern Ireland just amplifies the religion and politics. That said many people on both sides of the conflict nowadays have isolated politics as their own personal reasoning, excising religion and football."

I will agree to not be daft if you will kindly return the favour. I was saying that he, specifically, tied football with politics. "I don't like football, and so I can't agree with them. I'm not Protestant, and so I can't have those views!" I know a few Northern Irish Roman Catholics who are pro union. It's true that the views often align along such things. But they are not reserved for the Protestant Rover fans.

"He's talking about the plantations and the colonization of Northern Ireland as opposed to the vote at the turn of the century."
Really? He's an historian then? Wonder why he brought it up at all, then.

[Owlbread]

Aaaanyway.

There's been quite a few Yes flags flying high at T in the Park today. Here's some during Pharrell Williams' set:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[TD1]

Ah, the old blank wall. Well, if you don't want to talk about something you posted, that's fine. Out of curiosity, is there "yes" written on those flags? I see something, but I'm not sure.

[Loud Whispers]

There's been quite a few Yes flags flying high at T in the Park today. Here's some during Pharrell Williams' set:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When did Williams become a woman?

Ah, the old blank wall. Well, if you don't want to talk about something you posted, that's fine.

Give him time, Owlbread must research the post, lick the post, become the post before he can post the post.

[Darvi]

Give him time, Owlbread must research the post, lick the post, become the post before he can post the post.

Quite right, not everybody comments based on a link's url out of laziness.

Or based on previous notions that they have held, regardless of the post's content, just so they can feel self-righteousness.

[Loud Whispers]

Quite right, not everybody comments based on a link's url out of laziness.
Or based on previous notions that they have held, regardless of the post's content, just so they can feel self-righteousness.

I don't understand this

[Sergarr]

Northen' Ireland vs Scotland, not go!

Wait, this isn't right.