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[Helgoland]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hawRbECNX8o

[Guardian G.I.]

unrelated music to establish the mood
Meanwhile in Ukraine, Lugansk became the main hotspot today:

1. Ukrainian aircraft have reportedly bombed the regional administration building which is controlled by pro-Russian forces. Ukrainian news agency Unian claimed that no Ukrainian aircraft have bombed the building and that the building was hit by a misfiring MANPADS missile fired by pro-Russian forces, even though the explosion recorded by nearby CCTV cameras doesn't appear to resemble actual MANPADS launches. Plus, the CCTV recording appears to show a row of several small explosions (typically caused by an unguided missile barrage), and not a missile trail followed by a single explosion (that would be the case if a MANPADS was involved), but that's my misguided reactionary pro-separatist opinion and it may contradict your progressive democratic one.

Videos:
Ukrainian aircraft firing missiles.
Ditto, shot from farther away.
Some other video reportedly shot near the administration building - it doesn't show the aircraft itself but the explosion sound followed by sounds of a jet aircraft can be heard.
A compilation video including the aircraft flying near the Lugansk TV tower and the aftermath of the bombing. The TV tower appears to be near the administration building (the administration building's address is "м. Луганськ, пл. ім. Героїв ВВВ, 3")
(NSFW!) Aftermath of the bombing, shot by pro-Russian forces, complete with Russo-Ukrainian inter-ethnic strife in the comments section.

Something that appears to be a crater on the ground:


2. Since early morning, pro-Russian forces have been assaulting a base of Ukrainian Border Guards in the Mirny district of Lugansk. Russia's RIA Novosti claimed this afternoon that about 10 Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered, about 20 have tried to surrender but were fired at by other Ukrainian forces and were forcibly returned, the rest (~150 people) continued to fight. Current situation at the base is unclear.

Videos:
Shootout around 4:00 in the morning.
Later in the morning, something's burning.

Spoiler: A pro-Russian militiamen (?) with an AK equipped with a wonderful polyethylene bag suppressor. Also, note that he's carrying a Mosin rifle (?) on his back (click to show/hide)

[Comrade P.]

The guy on th the last photo is carrying SVT rather than Mosin rifle, I believe, or a derivative of that construction.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Ukrainian aircraft have reportedly bombed the regional administration building which is controlled by pro-Russian forces.

If that was true there would be very large holes in the  building. Or a pile of rubble instead of the building.  Surface to land missiles\rockets are nasty and do much more damage than that:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is indeed a result of Russia importing more manpads than guys who know how to use it. There are rumors that manpad locked on a hot conditioner... I think that is not true, Igla is smart enough to not react on that. It isn't smart enough to dodge buildings


Ukrainian army bombing center of the city during bright day is plain impossible. They are very careful in avoiding civilian causalities. Too careful if you ask me.
BTW,  if one tries to shot down a jet that flies over a city that means he cares not about safety of civilians.

[Sinistar]

I too would expect a bigger destruction if even a single rocket would hit a building, then again my knowledge of such things is non-existent and thus my opinion doesn't really matter. What is for sure is that something exploded and people got killed.
It's really sad though. This looks more and more like the Balkans in the 90's. And no-one should wish for that, trust me.

unrelated music to establish the mood

This is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

[Arx]

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Man, I even could have played explicitly Christian Serbian war music in the Plug.dj. Missed chance right there. _{Probably a good thing I missed it.}

Generally, though, it's pretty obvious if a building's been bombed. There isn't a building left, for one thing.

[Sheb]

unrelated music to establish the mood

This is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Fuck, the comments on that. I think it's the first time I see people calmy discussing the best way to genocide muslims, without irony.

[Guardian G.I.]

unrelated music to establish the mood

Man, I even could have played explicitly Christian Serbian war music in the Plug.dj. Missed chance right there. _{Probably a good thing I missed it.}

Generally, though, it's pretty obvious if a building's been bombed. There isn't a building left, for one thing.

It is assumed that S-8 unguided rockets have been used in the attack. They are pretty small and designed to hit infantry and lightly armoured targets, not to destroy buildings.
Anyway, I don't think that the explosion was caused by a misfiring MANPADS missile, as the Ukrainian government claims. The smoke trail of an Igla missile during ascent, as one of the videos in my previous posts shows, is white, while the smoke trail on the CCTV recording is mostly grayish. It's also much bigger than the smoke trail of an Igla missile.
If no S-8 were involved, then probably the Ukrainian Su-25 simply fired its high-calibre machine gun at the building. The sound heard in eyewitness videos resembles the sound of Su-25's onboard machine gun somewhat.

unrelated music to establish the mood

This is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Fuck, the comments on that. I think it's the first time I see people calmy discussing the best way to genocide muslims, without irony.

I don't think they are serious - they are (hopefully) just fans of "Remove Kebab" meme.
Serbian nationalists, who can be found in the comment sections of videos posted by other Serbian nationalists, should be noted - they are incredibly hilarious.

Нико нема што Србин имаде Србин има муда као гајде Србин има курац шестоперац па га мрзе и хрват и муслиман и немац! Ову пјесму су украли хрвати,а чак и да смо је ми обрадили од вас(мада сумњам,али ништа није немогуће)то је једина наша пјесма коју смо ми од вас узели,а ви сте покрали све српске пјесме,свака друга пјесма коју пјева Томсон је заправо обраде неке српске пјесме,наше пјесме су старије,пјеване су још у 1. свјетском рату,а ви обрадили тек у овом,па вашу химну је компоновао Србин!
[...]
Па наравно да ниси Србин! Ти и не можеш бити Србин, све да хоћеш! Бити Србин је част и привилегија, не може свако бити припадник небеског народа! А ти си обичан пустињски штакор, одлично ти одговара то име, рођен си као штакор и умрећеш као штакор, јебига таква ти је судбина. Нема свако срећу да се роди као Србин!

[scrdest]

Am I the only person who has trouble taking something called MANPADS seriously, weapon or not?

[Sergarr]

Am I the only person who has trouble taking something called MANPADS seriously, weapon or not?

Not the only one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've watched too much Touhou to take the PADS seriously.

[Dutchling]

unrelated music to establish the mood

This is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Fuck, the comments on that. I think it's the first time I see people calmy discussing the best way to genocide muslims, without irony.

You clearly don't know about Polandball. It's hilarious.

Here you go.

[palsch]

UKIP won bigger than in 2009 but are less popular in all measures.

Which says something kinda sad both about the big three parties and the UK population's view of EU elections...

[10ebbor10]

So less people like them, but UKIP supporters are the only one who bothered showing up?

[palsch]

So less people like them, but UKIP supporters are the only one who bothered showing up?

Basically.

There are nearly no Get Out The Vote efforts in EU elections, or the council ones that go along with them in some areas. Most council elections are completely uncompetitive, and those few that are competitive (and so have active campaigning) are still only a single ward so hardly touch the majority of voters for the regional EU vote.

People tend not to get overly excited about the EU unless they are passionate about leaving it. So the 'Eurosceptic' (in that perverse British sense) vote is going to be dominant. At the same time disillusionment with the big three parties drives people to make protest votes. UKIP were the dominant protest vote party in the pre-election press.

I'm going to guess a fair amount of people who don't like UKIP still voted for them, either because they want to protest the EU or as a more casual protest vote.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It is assumed that S-8 unguided rockets have been used in the attack. They are pretty small and designed to hit infantry and lightly armoured targets, not to destroy buildings.

We are still talking about 2-3kg of explosives here  (if that is FAE round) smashing in a brick war at 500m/s
That is roughly same amount of explosives as 105mm WW2 era howitzers had. Only explosives used are more modern and thus more powerful

As for designed to hit lightly armored  targets.... Heat S8 penetrates 400mm of steel armor. Penetrating round goes through 800mm of concrete... Even HE round should be able to make large holes
Of cause if it wasn't flechette missile. But 2000 flechetes would bring apocalypse to a large area

Spoiler: That is S-8 (click to show/hide)

Besides unguided rocket from aircraft would fly from above. not few meters above the road

If no S-8 were involved, then probably the Ukrainian Su-25 simply fired its high-calibre machine gun at the building

SU-25th double-barrel 30mm cannon has 3000 rpm fire rate so even if Pilot fired for one second you would get fifty shells  smashing all over the place.


I am 99% sure that it was Igla, it's 400g explosives+unspent fuel+lack of penetration fits the damage.