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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1770658 times)

smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5565 on: May 19, 2014, 06:45:55 pm »

The hell Wall Street Journal? Why do I have to login to read the whole article? :P

I suppose since he is already a billionaire, he might be less prone to corruption? I know theres no logic in that, but Ukraine badly needs a non-corrupt leader.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5566 on: May 19, 2014, 06:49:44 pm »

The hell Wall Street Journal? Why do I have to login to read the whole article? :P

To aid you in your hour of need I have stolen the article from them.

Spoiler: Try this (click to show/hide)
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5567 on: May 19, 2014, 07:01:35 pm »

It sounds like he might be able to unite eastern Ukraine back in. Also, didn't Tymoshenko drop out (she's the one in a wheelchair I think?)? or was that a different politician with a similar name?

Hryshenko getting elected would probably just make the pro-russians shout JUNTA even louder. Tihipiko sounds too close to the old regieme. I know nothing about the political past of any of them other than what has been said here.
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XXSockXX

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5568 on: May 19, 2014, 07:27:54 pm »

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:29:27 pm by XXSockXX »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5569 on: May 19, 2014, 07:52:22 pm »

Poroshenko has a low anti-rating, unlike most other candidates. That makes him a good compromise for a troubled time. As for his billions... We Ukrainians chuckle when he says that he made all the money in the 100% legal way, it is not possible in a corrupt country

But, oligarchs vary. He is not a crimelord like Akhmetov (very nasty guy that has trail of murders from 1990s)  he is not a former commie like Tygipko (this guy "somehow" privatized some of Soviet industry for free and sold it for hundreds of millions). He wasn't involved in natural gas trading schemes  like Firtash
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

XXSockXX

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5570 on: May 19, 2014, 08:11:44 pm »

Poroshenko has a low anti-rating, unlike most other candidates. That makes him a good compromise for a troubled time. As for his billions... We Ukrainians chuckle when he says that he made all the money in the 100% legal way, it is not possible in a corrupt country
I read an interview with him a few days ago (in German). Of course what a politician says on campaign isn't all that reliable (he also insists he's not an oligarch), but he seems relatively reasonable, aware of the country's problems (he wants to fight corruption and consolidate finances) and decisive but not too aggressive towards Russia.
Generally, a compromise candidate with a broad support might really be what is best now, so the country can consolidate.
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5571 on: May 19, 2014, 08:13:00 pm »

In your opinion though, is he the least corrupt? Ukraine badly needs a leader who isn't corrupt, or at least isn't corrupt to the level of Yanukshvenko and he is already rich, so he can buy a dozen mansions on his own cash. Not that it would be desirable behavior of a politician.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 08:28:09 pm by smjjames »
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misko27

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5572 on: May 19, 2014, 08:43:07 pm »

The problem is that Ukraine's problems are immense, and in general even successful democracies elect average leaders (with wide swinging in either direction), and average leaders can have trouble with immense problems.
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5573 on: May 19, 2014, 08:55:11 pm »

Gotta start somewhere though and it helps to have a politician who isn't corrupt
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misko27

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5574 on: May 19, 2014, 09:13:21 pm »

Gotta start somewhere though and it helps to have a politician who isn't corrupt
Yeah, I agree, but I've seen and researched many nations which sour on democracy immediately because they were promised that everything ever would become great and it didn't because reality ensues. And fixing things is hard and always promotes resentment.
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5575 on: May 19, 2014, 11:19:55 pm »

Oh for fucks sake, at the end of this article it says Moscow will still consider the government illegitimate. Just what do they define as legitimate

By their own standards, maybe their own government is illegitimate. /sarcastic sarcasm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/05/19/russia-ukraine/9272269/

I was going to post it because it talks about the minorities, but then that sentence at the end. Russia isn't doing themselves any favors by calling an election illegitimate that thousands of observers are going to be at and those in the east have said they are going to try and sabotage the election in some way or other.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 11:41:27 pm by smjjames »
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5576 on: May 19, 2014, 11:47:46 pm »

Well maybe if they didn't oust the Yanukovich one day after he left the Kiev for whatever reason, they would not be called "illegitimate".
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5577 on: May 20, 2014, 12:00:09 am »

Well maybe if they didn't oust the Yanukovich one day after he left the Kiev for whatever reason, they would not be called "illegitimate".

Calling the current one illegitimate I can get, but this is a full election. There's going to be thousands of observers (including Russian ones maybe? Hopefully? Maybe just to keep an eye on the other observers I dunno) there to make sure that there aren't any irregularities.

Then there are those in the east vowing to sabotage or otherwise disrupt the vote in whatever way possible.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5578 on: May 20, 2014, 01:25:51 am »

In your opinion though, is he the least corrupt? Ukraine badly needs a leader who isn't corrupt, or at least isn't corrupt to the level of Yanukshvenko and he is already rich, so he can buy a dozen mansions on his own cash. Not that it would be desirable behavior of a politician.
Well, our former president is a role model of corruption so being less corrupt than him isn't hard. Yeah, I expect that Poroshenko will not build mansions all over country and that his son will not become a billionaire in one year.

Poroshenko looks, talks and acts  like a politician imported from EU unlike his majors opponents that are Soviet style.
I am not a pro EU by any means (I want Ukraine to become European Israel) but that is a good direction for now
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5579 on: May 20, 2014, 01:44:33 am »

that is literally the worst thing you could hope it to become short of a broken or rogue state

explain why
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