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[Owlbread]

Speaking of problems of last 23 years, those shouldn't be referred to Russian government. Ukrainian government was in charge all along.

In the case of Crimea, "a Russian government" has been in charge all along i.e. the government of the Autonomous Republic, not "The" Russian government.

Karelians are russian-speaking locals, what do you even mean under "ethnic" Karelians?

Very interesting that you would say that

Speaking of Affirmative Action, do you really think it's a good thing? You know, I can understand usual discrimination, but positive discrimination seems to be the thing I do not like.

This is a very big question. By my own experience and without going into too much detail (we could talk for hours about it) I would say it is a good thing and, though it is not a magic elixir and does not solve everything, it is better this way than without it.

Sometimes we needed positive discrimination to show people like women or ethnic minorities or people from working class backgrounds that they could do the same jobs and go to the same schools and universities that white, upper/middle class men could.

More importantly we needed it to show the white, upper/middle class men that ruled the establishments in these sectors (and in many cases still do - I'm looking at you State Duma of the Russian Federation) that women, ethnic minorities and people from working class backgrounds could do these things. 

If they really think they are so concious and progressive they can form a government, they should prove it with some remarkable deeds, not just appeal to humanism. What have they done to represent themselves? Just said they got deported by Stalin? Almost any family in Russia suffered somehow from Stalin's repressions, and what?

It's pretty hard to do remarkable deeds to prove yourself to Russians as being worthy of "forming a government" when you're living illegally in a shack in poverty in your own country.

[Comrade P.]

@Owlbread
I don't think Russian government was in charge all over the Crimean Republic. More likely over city of Sevastopol. Just as I said, have been there in 2010, got a friend who lived there for a year and whose grandfather is still living there.

Karelians - all over the Wiki article is the word "assimilated". Assimilated by Finland, assimilated by Russia.

As for Affirmative Action, I think the argue is pointless. We just found out that our opinions diverge on that matter.
EDIT: We are not any longer in XIXth century (unfortunately). I presume everyone knows such things by now.

Well, they haven't even tried. They aren't even farming the land they occupy (reclaim). They weren't even trying to make their position better before via legal ways. They were just sitting there and complaining about their horrible fate and cursed Stalin.

[da_nang]

Open Letter to European Commission about DRM in HTML5

DRM in my HTML5? STRIKE IT DOWN. HARD.

[Digital Hellhound]

Oh dear, Aleksandr Dugin in Finnish news.

Nu har ni finländare en annan möjlighet. Ni kan välja mellan två identiteter, en västeuropeisk och en eurasiatisk. Ni kunde välja öst, rekommenderar Dugin.

"You Finns now have another opportunity. You can choose between two identities, a Western European and a Eurasian. You could choose East," recommends Dugin.

Yeah... Wait there for a while, Mr. Dugin, and I'll give you answer after I've plugged in a few electric generators near a few war graves. I bet I could meet all of Finland's energy needs...

@da_nang, bravo, that mental image made my day. Who is this guy and why has he just walked out of the 19th century?

[Owlbread]

@Owlbread
I don't think Russian government was in charge all over the Crimean Republic. More likely over city of Sevastopol. Just as I said, have been there in 2010, got a friend who lived there for a year and whose grandfather is still living there.

The Crimean Republic's government was predominantly Russian, as it was at the beginning of this year. Nothing has really changed since the early '90s - they even tried to break away and join Russia back then.

Karelians - all over the Wiki article is the word "assimilated". Assimilated by Finland, assimilated by Russia.

Yes, exactly. They only make up 9.2% of the Republic's population and they don't even speak Karelian anymore, yet they have their own ethnic republic. Marvellous, isn't it?

Well, they haven't even tried. They aren't even farming the land they occupy (reclaim). They weren't even trying to make their position better before via legal ways. They were just sitting there and complaining about their horrible fate and cursed Stalin.

I don't think this changes anything at all - they still need houses and, as I've already argued, they should have representation in government. I've heard similar arguments from people in the USA in relation to African Americans and Native Americans and in Australia in relation to Aborigines. Arguably Crimean Tatars are worse-off than any of those people.

@da_nang, bravo, that mental image made my day. Who is this guy and why has he just walked out of the 19th century?

Maybe you should ask President Putin. Dugin is a member of President Putin's inner circle and much of the new Russian "Eurasian" ethos espoused by the government (as opposed to the ethnic Russian nationalism espouses by the opposition) is based on Dugin's ideology. He's almost like Putin's chief ideologue, but not quite because Putin doesn't endorse absolutely everything he says (just most of it).

He is a very, very powerful man. He has close ties to the Russian military and very close ties to the United Russia party, currently adviser to Sergei Naryshkin, the Speaker of the State Duma, one of Putin's closest underlings.

[Comrade P.]

And yet they were in Ukraine. With centralised command. Or as much federative then as Russia right now.

It just seems to me that the only ethnic thing remained from that ethnic republic is the name. And one more factor I think is important. It looks like Russians assimilate with Christian ethnic groups much better than with Muslim ones.

Yes, they need houses. That is no doubt. I'm all for it. And as far as they can represent themselves via usual procedures, not via special laws, it's perfectly fine.

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: In response to Comrade P. (click to show/hide)

And yet they were in Ukraine. With centralised command. Or as much federative then as Russia right now.

Centralised command, but Ukraine could do little in Crimea which remained as a little ethnic Russian statelet on Ukrainian territory.

It just seems to me that the only ethnic thing remained from that ethnic republic is the name. And one more factor I think is important. It looks like Russians assimilate with Christian ethnic groups much better than with Muslim ones.

In that case you should think carefully about just what the Crimean Tatars mean when they speak of an "ethnic Republic".

But even then they don't tend to. I haven't met a Russian who has learned Udmurt or Mordvin and tries to use it much. The majority of the Russian ethnic republics are originally Muslim.

Yes, they need houses. That is no doubt. I'm all for it. And as far as they can represent themselves via usual procedures, not via special laws, it's perfectly fine.

They may need special laws to protect themselves from marginalisation.

Here's a bit more on Dugin for those who are interested, some quotes no less, circa 2008:

Before war broke out between Russia and Georgia in 2008, Dugin visited South Ossetia and predicted, "Our troops will occupy the Georgian capital Tbilisi, the entire country, and perhaps even Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula, which is historically part of Russia, anyway."

Afterwards he said Russia should "not stop at liberating South Ossetia but should move further," and "we have to do something similar in Ukraine."

Here's some more information:

n his 1997 article “Fascism – Borderless and Red”, Dugin exclaimed the arrival of a “genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism” in Russia. He believes that it was "by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans, ...while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes."

"Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe," was "an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime", according to him.

I know Sergarr liked to complain about Ukrainian Fascists but, considering how close this guy is to the Russian leadership...

He also co-founded the National Bolshevik Party and is the chief architect behind the ideology that is "National Bolshevism".

Spoiler: Would anyone like to see his party flag? (click to show/hide)

Can't make it any more bloody clear than that, can we?

[Comrade P.]

Okay, I confess I'm not so well aware of political situation in Crimea before the things happened.

The whole point is that when they speak of ethnic republic, they mean they would like to enforce their national... everything (language, traditions) above all the others.

What are they, physically challenged aliens? They are as much healthy representatives of mankind as any Russian, Scotsman or anyone. Why should something special be done for them only because of their nationality?

EDIT:
Natsbols (National-Bolshevicks) are so marginal here as any fascist should be. Though this guy Dugin gets uglier as far as I learn things about him. Surprisingly, I learn things from here.

[Owlbread]

The whole point is that when they speak of ethnic republic, they mean they would like to enforce their national... everything (language, traditions) above all the others.

Not necessarily, no more than in Buryatia or Sakha or Tuva or any other ethnic republic but I don't see it as a bad thing if Russians adopt some of their language and traditions in the spirit of creating a united Crimean identity. I've already explained how this could be done.

What are they, physically challenged aliens? They are as much healthy representatives of mankind as any Russian, Scotsman or anyone. Why should something special be done for them only because of their nationality?

Spoiler: Why should something special... (click to show/hide)

"Why should something special be done for them only because of their nationality?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their gender?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their ethnicity?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their religion?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their age?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their sexuality?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their disability?"
"Why should something special be done for them only because of their socio-economic background?"
"Why should..."

EDIT:
Natsbols (National-Bolshevicks) are so marginal here as any fascist should be. Though this guy Dugin gets uglier as far as I learn things about him. Surprisingly, I learn things from here.

Dugin is a pretty bad guy, anyone can see that. President Putin though and his inner circle seem to like at least enough of what he has to say to keep him around.

[Comrade P.]

And what if Russian do not want to form such a cultural union?

As for the questions enlisted, you're putting all the eggs in one basket.
Gender, age and disability are things human being is given without his will.
As for the other parameters, human being can define himself during his life. If he chose those, he willingly took responsibility for his choice.

[Owlbread]

And what if Russian do not want to form such a cultural union?

Could you explain why they wouldn't?

All the others human being can define himself during his life. If he chose those, he willingly took responsibility for his choice.

I'll keep this bit in mind.

[Comrade P.]

Generally, because no one likes to be assimilated via enforcement. And I think this reason should be familiar to Tatars. Assimilation is the process that requires peace and time.

[Sergarr]

National-Bolshevicks... How does that name even start to make sense? The Bolshevicks are the proponents of international class warfare (workers vs capitalists), the Nationalists are all about nationality, how in the name of Flying Macaroni God do you combine those two??? Declaring a specific combination of nationality and class to be totally better than everybody?

[Owlbread]

Generally, because no one likes to be assimilated via enforcement. And I think this reason should be familiar to Tatars. Assimilation is the process that requires peace and time.

I have never said that they need to be assimilated via enforcement. This should be about positive encouragement.

National-Bolshevicks... How does that name even start to make sense? The Bolshevicks are the proponents of international class warfare (workers vs capitalists), the Nationalists are all about nationality, how in the name of Flying Macaroni God do you combine those two??? Declaring a specific combination of nationality and class to be totally better than everybody?

You had best ask President Putin, he must understand the concept quite well given that he keeps Dugin around.

[Comrade P.]

Generally, because no one likes to be assimilated via enforcement. And I think this reason should be familiar to Tatars. Assimilation is the process that requires peace and time.

I have never said that they need to be assimilated via enforcement. This should be about positive encouragement.

You haven't. But maybe I was just misinformed from the very beginning, because I meant that Tatars wanted Russians to be assimilated with them.

Speaking of natsbols:

Spoiler: Official Ms. Natsbol (click to show/hide)

Apparently, the best thing the whole party provides.