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[TD1]

I wouldn't clap just yet, Owlbread is formidable in his replies

I'm cheering for you, you multi-avatar spawn of nature!

I'm am too. Along with clapping. Much, much clapping.

May the games commence!

[aenri]

I'm just going to say that "we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain, that's an American Thing" is some of the most condescending bullshit I've ever seen before, especially considering everything I've seen from the British right-wing.

You have taken that strawman and totally ripped it to pieces.

"we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain, that's an American Thing"
is not at all what has been said... please don't insult people by misinterpreting the posts in this thread.

My perspective is from 'Merrica, where anti-immigration is 100% focused on racism.

It's the same in Europe. Or well, "ethnicism", since a lot of racists get all semantical about what racism is. Regardless, it's all about where people come from, and about letting certain peoples in and keeping others out. The more melanin you produce, the bigger chance of you being in the "Out" group, of course.

No, that's an American thing. Keep the whole obsession for white racism against black people and whatever over the pond, the majority of European immigrants are other Europeans and Asians, with few in the way of melanin differences in between. And yet somehow European countries can still find an abundance of people complaining about how European countries simply cannot cope with unrestricted immigration, even amongst immigrants themselves! But why wouldn't evil nazi europeans embrace additional european immigrants, if everything is 100% focused on racism?

No it's not, on both accounts. American and European politics are a world apart [literally and metaphorically speaking] as well as in racism. American racism is split between a white and black divide with a growing hispanic and black divide, whereas European racism varies from country to country and can usually trace its roots to who genocided who before and during WWII. Different beasts entirely.

No it's not, on both accounts. American and European politics are a world apart [literally and metaphorically speaking] as well as in racism. American racism is split between a white and black divide with a growing hispanic and black divide, whereas European racism varies from country to country and can usually trace its roots to who genocided who before and during WWII. Different beasts entirely.

I agree with what LW said in both excerpts, and can't possibly fathom where you got the "we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain" part from. This all is based on the premise that you were actually replying to LW's post.

[TD1]

Currently watching Eurovision.

One or two good songs, and a good dashing of amateurish stuff by the sounds of it.

Also, the end result is less based on music, more on preconceived bias. It seems to have little point to it except to waste money, but I suppose  someone here can tell me a good reason for it?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You have taken that strawman and totally ripped it to pieces.

"we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain, that's an American Thing"
is not at all what has been said... please don't insult people by misinterpreting the posts in this thread.

Except that is, essentially, what LW is arguing.

I agree with what LW said in both excerpts, and can't possibly fathom where you got the "we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain" part from.

Alright, let me show you:

My perspective is from 'Merrica, where anti-immigration is 100% focused on racism.

It's the same in Europe. Or well, "ethnicism", since a lot of racists get all semantical about what racism is. Regardless, it's all about where people come from, and about letting certain peoples in and keeping others out. The more melanin you produce, the bigger chance of you being in the "Out" group, of course.

No, that's an American thing. Keep the whole obsession for white racism against black people and whatever over the pond, the majority of European immigrants are other Europeans and Asians, with few in the way of melanin differences in between. And yet somehow European countries can still find an abundance of people complaining about how European countries simply cannot cope with unrestricted immigration, even amongst immigrants themselves! But why wouldn't evil nazi europeans embrace additional european immigrants, if everything is 100% focused on racism?

No it's not, on both accounts. American and European politics are a world apart [literally and metaphorically speaking] as well as in racism. American racism is split between a white and black divide with a growing hispanic and black divide, whereas European racism varies from country to country and can usually trace its roots to who genocided who before and during WWII. Different beasts entirely.

[TD1]

He's not saying we don't have a problem with it, for crying out loud.

He's saying we're different from America.

America has reasons for racism based on colour. In Europe, that happens too, but it's mainly historical. For example, those damn bloody French! (Not seriously, that's just an example.)

[aenri]

LW is saying that racism in USA and Europe is different. Does it imply it doesn't exist in UK, but exists in USA? No.

Difference lies in history of USA and Europe, mainly slavery. Racism in Yurop is nothing like the one in USA and really is better described as ethnicism (classic example for me is Slavs and Germans, courtesy of WWII). I generally dislike expanding racism to cover such things, because there is no racial motive. But as scriver said it's semantics.

[scriver]

That's just... No.

The reasons UKIP believe immigration should be cut down to begin with are racist reasons. You can't just pretend that they're "the least discriminatory party" without consider why they want what they want.

If all you want to do is lambast everything as racist then there's not going to be much talk is there? It's just going to be you going 'UKIP's racist,' others going 'no' and repeated ad nauseam.

Using the example of Australia, yet again. Are they racist?

Yes, they are. And as far as I know, they are masking that racism behind a rhetoric of being "anti-boat immigrantist".

Ha.

You (or TheDwarfyOne, since he most likely brought it up to make a point) could take your own advice and explain why you think Australia's boat immigrant policy aren't racist. If all you want to do is scoff at me then you'd be better off just doing it loudly to your computer.

It's the same in Europe. Or well, "ethnicism", since a lot of racists get all semantical about what racism is. Regardless, it's all about where people come from, and about letting certain peoples in and keeping others out. The more melanin you produce, the bigger chance of you being in the "Out" group, of course.

No, that's an American thing. Keep the whole obsession for white racism against black people and whatever over the pond, the majority of European immigrants are other Europeans and Asians, with few in the way of melanin differences in between. And yet somehow European countries can still find an abundance of people complaining about how European countries simply cannot cope with unrestricted immigration, even amongst immigrants themselves! But why wouldn't evil nazi europeans embrace additional european immigrants, if everything is 100% focused on racism?

Don't get stuck up on the semantics of my "melanin" comments, you know very well that I'm not saying it is the only basis for racism. Beyond that, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Racism isn't racist because immigrants are racists too?

He's not saying we don't have a problem with it, for crying out loud.

He's saying we're different from America.

America has reasons for racism based on colour. In Europe, that happens too, but it's mainly historical. For example, those damn bloody French! (Not seriously, that's just an example.)

The thing is, it isn't particularly different. I agree that the USA has a whole bunch of racism issues that Europe doesn't (particularly with their institutionalized racism and the way they think in actual races), but the gist is the same. People are hated for having different cultures, and racism gets worse the browner you are. And currently, the more "Muslim" you are, of course.

[TD1]

Admittance is based on use, not race. They don't discriminate by race, but by ability, AFAIK.


Equally you could say that racism gets worse the whiter you are. There is an issue with that too, but regardless, there is a distinct difference between racism. American racism is against members within its own country which are different. This type of racism is Euopean, and tends to be judged by country. It's not-"He's black!" It's "They're Polish!" Or "They're Turkish!"

Yes, colour is used too, but not as exclusively as it is in America, though Kai could probably weigh in and either validate or refute that.

[LordSlowpoke]

hey dorfykins, not to be rude but how much crap do the kinds of immigrants you get receive? i'd ask for the entire union, but i run off the wild assumption you don't get the entire spectrum so it'd be silly to ask you to judge these

i don't ask for anything indepth, go with a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 as basically a native and with 10 as syrian refugee camps in jordan if it makes it easier on you

[scriver]

Admittance is based on use, not race. They don't discriminate by race, but by ability, AFAIK.

Are you even aware of the whole boat refugee issue?

Equally you could say that racism gets worse the whiter you are.

No. Just no.

[GreatJustice]

LW is saying that racism in USA and Europe is different. Does it imply it doesn't exist in UK, but exists in USA? No.

Difference lies in history of USA and Europe, mainly slavery. Racism in Yurop is nothing like the one in USA and really is better described as ethnicism (classic example for me is Slavs and Germans, courtesy of WWII). I generally dislike expanding racism to cover such things, because there is no racial motive. But as scriver said it's semantics.

Nonsense. Racism in Europe and US is quite similar, and if anything is quite a bit worse in Southern Europe. I can't recall bananas being thrown at American sports players in recent times (besides one incident in Canada during a hockey game).

[TD1]

Yea, sure. They turned boats away. Refugees and asylum seekers. Would you allow a group of people into the customs without going through customs? No passports? Yes, they were seeking help and were turned away. That is harsh. But harshness is not racism.

Quite frankly, your "No. Just no." is laughable.

Are you saying Black people don't frequently insult whitebread? White mo-fas? Honky ma-fas?

Black people can be racist too, wonder of wonders!

[scriver]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying it doesn't get worse the whiter you are. And besides that, indigenous people suffer from none of the non-communicative or structural racism that other people have to endure.

Yea, sure. They turned boats away. Refugees and asylum seekers. Would you allow a group of people into the customs without going through customs? No passports? Yes, they were seeking help and were turned away. That is harsh. But harshness is not racism.

They are not "turned away". They're put into off-country concentration camps and disregarded. Even people who are deemed to "have cause to apply for asylum" aren't allowed into Australia but forced to live in the countries they were put in. There is no reason these people couldn't have been allowed into Australia, even if they're interred there, while going through the legalities.

[kaijyuu]

Might I suggest taking it to the Australia thread? They've been discussing this for ages.

[scriver]

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Point is, though, the Australian immigrant policy is hardly clean business.