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[LordSlowpoke]

So the Swiss decided to flip off the EU. I think we should just close the tunnels for a couple of days and see what happens; opinions?

the swiss will close our bank accounts for a few days and everyone's shit gets fucked up vOv

if it's anyone's independence i respect, it's switzerland's because of its unique political system

they want to cut everything they got with the eu? sure. that's the price they have to pay to actually govern themselves because their politicians are being dumb fucks (you don't want to go with our party line? sure thing, let's just write something that's a pretty terrible thing into the bill and let you vote on that) whoa this is a different thing altogether.

welp, they can still do that as they're not part of the eu i guess

let's hope this gives cameron more reason to take all his little englands and just get out

[Stuebi]

At first, I didnt want to go to vote for the whole thing, because it basically just comes down to being a statement instead of an actual vote. If the EU as a whole isnt satisfied with the decision there are ample ways to _force_ switzerland to ignore the vote and continue on as before. (Which speaks entire volumes about the EU, and just makes me extra glad we never joined and hopefully never will. Bunch of asshats.)

Generally, they want to... isolate themselves? Sounds a bit like this.

Well, you know, "we'll cut off supplies if you do/don't..." argument works almost always. The choice is yours wether do use it or not.

Its not about isolation. There are a myriad of reasons a lot of us over here consider the current trend of immigration an issue. Keep in mind the vote was _barely_ accepted with a tad more than 50% voting yes. And still you have the usual politic suspects allready talking about racism, accusing switzerland of hating freedom and hating everyone but themselves. Youre right on the supplies thing tough. If you shut down the trade, we're fucked. Meaning the EU can easily bully us into submission anyways if they feel like it (see above).

But hey, after reading some Twitter feeds and Newspaper headlines, its way easier to just assume and point fingers than doing some actual research before blurting out retarded statements. Its ironic that I used to be proud without end about the whole system we have over here, when I first learned about it in school. You know, before you learn that its basically just a Sand Castle the EU allow to stand until a certain border is crossed.

[Frumple]

Sooo... what's switzerland doing, anyway? Situation summation for the distant and unknowing?

[Stuebi]

Sooo... what's switzerland doing, anyway? Situation summation for the distant and unknowing?

What exactly do you wanna know? What the vote was about or the general situation? 

[Sheb]

Mostly the vote.

[scriver]

The vote was basically "should there be fewer immigrants in Schweiz". This is related to EU because of open border treaties they are involved in.

[Stuebi]

I was actually surprised that it got trough, even as close as it was. As allways there were some of the usual "Gosh darn foreigners stealing our jobs, taking our women and poisoning our Nazi-Gold wells" going on, which as usual can be safely ignored.

So the Initiative was meant to limit the amount of immigrants to a certain number, which conflicts with the current open border treaty with the EU.

Basically, the one major problem (Personal view here, im no specialist in politics) with immigration as such in switzerland is, that noone seems really able to tell where the _actual_ issues lie, and which others are just the usual tries of making an elephant out of a mosquito. The SVP will eagerly tell you how swiss workers loose jobs to foreigners and how they're hurting the economy or are leeching on our social institutions etc. The other factions will tell you the exact opposite, that we would be royally fucked without open borders and how foreigners are like angels descending upon poor switzerland. Its the usual bullshit of noone even trying to offer a neutral view, listing actual facts without bias so you can logically make your decision and vote fairly.

The stupidity behind this is, that it works with anything else. But as soon as EU, immigration or foreign politics get into the Mix, votings, Referendums and Initatives turn into a nightmare. This is the reason I usually dont vote on this crap, because I cant be bothered to work myself trough the giant pile of necessary research before I can give one damn vote.

About the situation, basically they are trying to figure out how to even implement the change. The Bundesrat appearantly starts with negotioations on the current agreements with the EU, they on turn allready made it clear by statement that they wont budge from them. So, if you ask me: Either they find some whacko workaround that basically changes nothing, or the EU has to wave its willy around once before the entire political party collectivelly bends over and everything returns to normal.

And concerning personal opinions, I think they really dont matter in this case, and noone probably cares anyway. According to my experiences before, everything you say now as a swiss will probably be stamped as racist and/or hateful anyway.

[Max White]

I was actually surprised that it got trough, even as close as it was. As allways there were some of the usual "Gosh darn foreigners stealing our jobs, taking our women and poisoning our Nazi-Gold wells" going on, which as usual can be safely ignored.

No. Wrong.
Look I've sunk a few hours of my life into political campaigning and learning how the 'average joe' approaches these issues, and trust me, if there are a few ignorant hicks spouting uninformed nonsense then a good percent of the population has that viewpoint nagging at them in the back of their mind, and it has a good chance of affecting their voting patterns. Even people who are otherwise intelligent but don't make any effort to be politically informed are subject to being swayed by this misinformation. It is a simple viewpoint for them to latch onto, so they do.

If an argument is common enough to be a tired old cliche, no matter how many times it has been disproven, an unheathy number of people believe it.

[aenri]

Well, if I got it right, it was about quotas on immigration. Something against the many German, French and other EU workers that worked in Schweiz. EU, well mainly Germany and France (so the whole of EU ), is a little bit ticked off.

Probably the treaty will be renegotiated, and Swiss governement will allow EU workers on higher quotas (basically preferential treatement), maybe except workers from some of the eastern EU members (which shouldn't even be in EU).

EDIT:Ninjaed

[Stuebi]

I was actually surprised that it got trough, even as close as it was. As allways there were some of the usual "Gosh darn foreigners stealing our jobs, taking our women and poisoning our Nazi-Gold wells" going on, which as usual can be safely ignored.

No. Wrong.
Look I've sunk a few hours of my life into political campaigning and learning how the 'average joe' approaches these issues, and trust me, if there are a few ignorant hicks spouting uninformed nonsense then a good percent of the population has that viewpoint nagging at them in the back of their mind, and it has a good chance of affecting their voting patterns. Even people who are otherwise intelligent but don't make any effort to be politically informed are subject to being swayed by this misinformation. It is a simple viewpoint for them to latch onto, so they do.

If an argument is common enough to be a tired old cliche, no matter how many times it has been disproven, an unheathy number of people believe it.

I agree. I wasnt saying that they are neglectable as in "They ahve no impact". But that they're just a part of every debate, and just as you correctly noted, tired cliches. Im very much aware that theres a substantial amount of people in any given country, who will happily go along on the "THEY TOOK OUR JOOOOOBS"-Parade and vote yes. Generally, I think that a lot of people voted yes simply out of spite, because of recent events and the usual SVP Campaigns of "All Foreigners are evil and shagging your wife RIGHT NOW.".

[Sheb]

Yeah, Switzerland's position is pretty bad since it's totally dependent on the EU but doesn't have a say within the EU.

[Stuebi]

Yeah, Switzerland's position is pretty bad since it's totally dependent on the EU but doesn't have a say within the EU.

Without any important natural resources or the like, this is true, aye. But i dont want to complain too much. We're doing well currently. But the occasional political stupidity still makes me shake my head.

[Sheb]

Even without ressources, you can't really import or export anything without going through the EU. And you need access to our market much more than we need access to yours, so again assymetrical negociation.

So yeah, simply put, you have to compromise to get sweet, sweet market access, and this mean accepting migrants.

[LordSlowpoke]

so, forced globalization best globalization or wot

perry's ironclads all over again?

[Max White]

Question: Why doesn't Switzerland into the EU? I'm pretty sure it is Europian... Does it also fish too much?