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[Ukrainian Ranger]

About events near presidential administration


Look at that photo. Do you see anything strange? No? Note persons in civilian behind the line of police. They are just standing here and no one touch them. How do you think why?   I can give you an answer: they are working together with police as one team to create an excuse for police to counterattack

Need more proofs? Download this video and enjoy
http://podrobnosti.ua/upload/news/2013/12/02/945689_4.mp4

Also, note that those guys under attack are not a riot police, that's internal army conscripts. 19-20 years old guys! They didn't even got shields and sticks to defend themselves against provocateurs and mob that followed them. Counterattack, of cause, was launched with a proper trained riot police

Spoiler: more (click to show/hide)

 

Top photo - near presidential administration when it all started
Bottom photos - inside presidential administration after the fight

They aren't only provocateurs, they are moronic provocateurs that forgot what century they live in. I am sure they hate media and Internet sooooooo much

Unfortunately they still partially succeeded, hundreds of most radical and angry people followed them*  and created nice photos and videos for the media picturing Ukrainian protests as violent riots while direct opposite is true. We have a peaceful protest over here

*when million is on the streets, some hot heads are always present

Bonus:

Spoiler: Russian press is so Russian (click to show/hide)

Original photo from Greece :


Russian variant:

[misko27]

Oh well the picture I saw (in the NY times) was this one:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

I'm not, one hundred percent sure what  this picture shows though.

[scriver]

Just so you know; Swedish media showed the violenteers as not bring part of the main protest and in fact being chased away by them.

[Sheb]

Internal conscripts? Can you try to get them to switch over to the protesters? I mean, they're a nice PR touch for the government: look at them all scared and huddled together.

[Guardian G.I.]

RT's recording of today's clashes near the Ukrainian parliament building.

[Sheb]

I must say, their riot police look incredibly badly equipped, trained and led. And numerous. That is simply no way to manage a protest.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Internal conscripts? Can you try to get them to switch over to the protesters? I mean, they're a nice PR touch for the government: look at them all scared and huddled together.

We try. We continuously try. But they are too scared to risk tribunal and they don't believe that opposition can defend them from further trials.  Besides they are under impression that this is a mere meeting and people will go home eventually

I hope they will be smart enough to switch when actual fighting will start. Chances for that grow , but we are still on defensive. Barricades around Independence square grow, recently barbed wire was added. Doubt that it can be assaulted without heavy vehicles

[Kicior]

What do you mean by

actual fighting 

?

Wouldn't more violence than some riots on the Maidan make Russia go like "HURR DURR RUSSIAN-SPEAKING PEOPLE IN DANGER HURR DURR WE GOTTA SAVE 'EM FROM FILTHY WESTERNERS!!!"? I mean if Putin plays it right I could imagine Russia gaining parts of eastern Ukraine or maybe Crimea or trying to create puppet states out of them.

[scriver]

Ukraine is a lot closer to the American/NATO sphere than Armenia, you know.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Wouldn't more violence than some riots on the Maidan make Russia go like "HURR DURR RUSSIAN-SPEAKING PEOPLE IN DANGER HURR DURR WE GOTTA SAVE 'EM FROM FILTHY WESTERNERS!!!"? I mean if Putin plays it right I could imagine Russia gaining parts of eastern Ukraine or maybe Crimea or trying to create puppet states out of them.

As I said if fighting will start, that will be not the fault of opposition. We are ready to meet force by equal force.  For now we answered with barricades and self-defense squads ready to bash some police heads with steel pipes. If they'll come with more than batons, tear gas and stun grenades - the answer will be adequate.

As for that Russian Intervention Scenario... It's quite possible and so what? You propose to fold and look how our whole slowly country turns into something like North Korea? No, thanks. That's not gonna happen. War with Russia? I wish them good luck with new, rather large, Chechnya.
And that's if NATO will just say "Hey, Russia, we don't care what happens near our borders". I somehow doubt it

It's very hard to predict were situation will go from here, one can be said for sure: there are no way back, country has changed. Something that Yanukovich and his gang fail to understand. He thinks that all this will just dissolve without a trace and he will rule as he wants.
Maybe, maybe he will find a way to suppress that one and it will be relatively calm for months, years even, but it will explode anyway

[Kicior]

Ukraine is a lot closer to the American/NATO sphere than Armenia, you know.

Kuwait is even further, yet it has recieved help from USA. Your point is? (Is this a reference to a particular conflict?)

As for that Russian Intervention Scenario... It's quite possible and so what? You propose to fold and look how our whole slowly country turns into something like North Korea? No, thanks. That's not gonna happen. War with Russia? I wish them good luck with new, rather large, Chechnya.
And that's if NATO will just say "Hey, Russia, we don't care what happens near our borders". I somehow doubt it

No oil, no American intervention (I hope you can hear my tongue in my cheek).
I am just saying that in case of internal struggle  people supporting Russia have a big friend right next to them, people supporting the West don't. America might or might not help.

[Sergarr]

The definite worst case is splitting Ukraine into West and East parts.

[XXSockXX]

Ukraine is a lot closer to the American/NATO sphere than Armenia, you know.

Did you maybe mean Georgia? Though, in that case, the Georgian government wasn't exactly innocent in that conflict. They were testing how far they could go with their new western allies and ended up pissing off Russia too much.

I think anything short of a real civil war it is really very unlikely that Russia is going to intervene in Ukraine by force. Sure, they have a lot of interest in having a friendly government in Ukraine, they see it as part as their sphere of influence, there is a big Russian minority in Crimea and there are strategic interests to consider (they still have the Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, I think). But they are not that stupid, they know they'd make the Ukrainians themselves plus the EU and US very angry by intervening, so they'll stick to diplomacy. They will probably try to influence the outcome in their favor by diplomatic/political means (and so will the West), but not much else.

On the other hand, thinking the US or NATO would (or could) intervene in case of a Russian intervention, is an illusion. Basically nobody has any interest in a conflict with Russia, that's just no option. Got nothing to do with oil or something, it's just a geopolitical conflict nobody wants and nobody is actually capable of risking at the moment.
I mean if the West doesn't intervene in Syria, because a) there is no popular support for war and b) the US military is already stretched too thin to actually fight a prolonged conflict (it's even worse with the European armies), then they're certainly not going to take on Russia. That's just unrealistic.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I am just saying that in case of internal struggle  people supporting Russia have a big friend right next to them, people supporting the West don't.

Heh:) Believe me no illusions here. If Ukrainian history ever taught me something that is we should never hope for any help from the West.

The definite worst case is splitting Ukraine into West and East parts.

Nah, If you ask me, that's one of acceptable scenarios if that will happen without bloodshed. I want Ukrainian Ukraine. If that means territorial loss, so be it.
But in fact,  serious separatism exist only in Crimea, other regions don't have majority supporting that, especially if you take away 60 year+ people.

[misko27]

Given the EU is playing a rather significant role, I doubt Putin would be so bold. He could, mind, but the EU would have good reason to be very mad. He is already risking a trade war, and that would severely hurt Russia's economy (EU's too, but that doesn't help him; this is to protect the Russian economy after all). So far he has stood back and called the protesters illegitimate and other names. I think he wants to see how this plays out: Yanuckovych winning without Putin having to interfere is the best possibility for Putin, and so far that has been what he put his cards on.

I mean it's one thing to pull that shit in Georgia when no one else is involved, but the EU is watching, and America is just noticing. I think Putin will bide his time, at least while the government remains stable. When that changes, well, his calculus might change. But for now, no.

The definite worst case is splitting Ukraine into West and East parts.

That probably wouldn't be his intention as far as I can see; he has denounced the protesters as a coup, so if anything, he might invade to "protect a legitimate government".