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[MetalSlimeHunt]

See, this is why private and non-secular schools just should not be a thing.

[Owlbread]

The problem in Scotland is that most opposition to the Catholic schools is fueled by deep sectarian resentment, so as soon as we bring it up we run a risk of getting into very dodgy territory. It's a pity though, the Scottish Green Party (who I suspect a lot of people here would sympathise with) had a decent plan for getting rid of faith schools back in 2007. It's been buried since then.

The greens are pretty good here because they tend to have quite a broad range of policies, not just focused on environmentalism. They're often described as "ecosocialists". Along with being the clearest example of Social Democrats in the country (more so than the SNP or Labour), they are the most vocal proponents of ideas like extending local democracy (they talk about "radical democracy") and pacifism, along with equality (gender, LGBT, race etc). Their main figurehead, Patrick Harvey, is the first openly bisexual party leader in the entire UK, and is very keen on open source stuff and free software. Big fan of Linux.

[10ebbor10]

See, this is why private and non-secular schools just should not be a thing.

And that was the reaction I was trying to avoid. There has been no indication at all that the fact that this was Christian school had anything to do with the matter. (And for a matter of fact, I know that these students would also have had problems in nonreligious public schools).

Some people just need to take every opportunity to get their opinion across, whether is warranted, valid or even relevant to the situation matters not.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It is completely valid. Religious schools have a long tradition of fucking with everybody who does not conform to their beliefs. I myself once had to deal with administrative discrimination from a religious school because I wasn't Christian enough for them. This story is hardly surprising.

Religious schools have every temptation to try to enforce their beliefs on their students, because schools are indeed meant to give students knowledge. The problem is that in religious institutions, the people running them obviously are not going to see any difference between things that are accepted as true and their religious beliefs. They are equally true to them, and thus things that should be equally imparted on onto students, regardless of how they might rebel.

[Owlbread]

My parents have had many years of experience working within the Catholic-Church controlled care institutions (dating back to the early 90s) that double as faith schools throughout Scotland and I'm not sure if I can really make allegations here in case it somehow leads to a legal challenge. Let's leave it at that, take from that what you will.

[miauw62]

I go to a Belgian Catholic school, and altough I can't speak for all schools, let alone all countries, hardly any religion is taught in here.

[10ebbor10]

I go to a Belgian Catholic school, and altough I can't speak for all schools, let alone all countries, hardly any religion is taught in here.

As mentioned earlier, there's a difference between government controlled schools, non secular schools, and private schools.

Catholic institution in Belgium are Governement funded and (partially) controlled non-secular schools. The difference between them and secular government controlled schools is that they're usually more prestigious, that you have 1/2 hours of Religion(always Christianity)* a week; and that you have to endure a starting and ending mass. Depending on the school, you can also get a Reflection trip***, and get icecream on the patron day of the Saint after which the school is named. 

*As opposed to just generic philosophy**, or whatever religion you believe in.
**Not that there was much difference
***Which was 1/2 day activity with the entire class

Now, what MSH is complaining about are hardliner religious private schools. A simple thing that can easily be solved by imposing a curriculum*
*which also has the nice side-effect of fixing all schools which teach arguably (or non arguably) false things to students.

[MonkeyHead]

... which is why many of us working in the educational sector in the UK are shit scared of "free schools" - institutions made legal by the Tories that allow ANYONE to set up a school if they pass a fairly weak application process, with government funding. They dont even need to employ qualified teaching staff. Case in point here : OFSTEAD Closes Muslim Free School

[10ebbor10]

Wut. The point of government funding is that is that it allows you to more easily control the free schools. It's not to give away money.

[MonkeyHead]

Meh... as far as the Tories (i.e. Gove) envisaged it, free schools would allow the wealthy middle classes to avoid sending thier posh kids to state run schools, keeping them happy and distant from the plebs. It.... has not really worked out like that, with a signifigant number of the "free schools" turning out to be fundamentalist across the range of religions extant in the UK. Its almost as if Gove wanted to make running schools someone elses problem, as in "Here is some money, now go do my job for me..."

[kaian-a-coel]

Did anybody brought up the possible hygiene issues of beards? They're commonly forbidden in some workplaces (food ones), so if their cursus involved microbiology or something like that, it may be that.

[10ebbor10]

Did anybody brought up the possible hygiene issues of beards? They're commonly forbidden in some workplaces (food ones), so if their cursus involved microbiology or something like that, it may be that.

It's not university or anything. I mean, those kids were 14.

[Owlbread]

If the curriculum included microbiology or cooking then there'd be no problem if they kept their beards clean, or wore a net if they absolutely had to. There are facial nets for bearded workers.

Generally, there are no real issues with men having beards or other forms of facial hair. It's all an issue of control. The army is a case in point. I understand there can be issues with the seals on gas masks if you are bearded, but that shouldn't stop you from wearing a moustache. Indeed, in the British Army it is common for men to grow moustaches.

[MonkeyHead]

Pretty sure the Navy is cool with full beards too, other than on subs, IIRC.

[Loud Whispers]

Did anybody brought up the possible hygiene issues of beards? They're commonly forbidden in some workplaces (food ones), so if their cursus involved microbiology or something like that, it may be that.

Beardnet

My personal experience is that of schools dictating hair styles since forever. Anything 'extreme,' they have the last say. Usually you'd only ever expect beards and moustaches to be allowed at 6th form. Not seeing the religious angle here.