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[Descan]

Phlegmland.

[10ebbor10]

Owlbread, I'd pay attention to who you're demonstrating with regarding Flemish independence. The Flemish nationalists tend to be more right-wing than the Scottish, and their complaints less justified (I mean, they are a majority within Belgium. And nowadays the closest thing to oppression is a French speaker asking for his croissants in French north of the linguistic border.)

Belgium separatism is based in bad memory. Where the World Wars will be remembered as a sign of unity in many nations, they're the foundation of the Flemish movement in Belgium. Another thing is that the majority of the immigrants speak French, in addition to their native language. Which makes it fairly easy to lump both groups together, hence right wing problems.

Though they're not that bad as they sometimes seem.

So where will the Flemish go if the take part of Belgium?

Hum, Nowhere. We got the economical heart of the country, the political center of the country, and it's major ports. Nothing we need really. Though well, it all depends on how the country splits. (Who get's Brussels, for one part.) Belgium is already fairly divided, so there are no real broad changes to be made.

I mean, we'd have 600 million euros extra, but that's it.

[miauw62]

Yeah, Flemish Seperationists are (generally) right-wing.

Something that should also be mentioned is that one of said seperationist right-wing parties (Vlaams Belang) also got quite a bit of votes in the last election. I don't know what kind of election this was because the Belgian voting system is confusing. But still, that bears a bit of correlation to a new right-wing party in Germany also getting quite a few votes.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah, Flemish Seperationists are (generally) right-wing.

Something that should also be mentioned is that one of said seperationist right-wing parties (Vlaams Belang) also got quite a bit of votes in the last election. I don't know what kind of election this was because the Belgian voting system is confusing. But still, that bears a bit of correlation to a new right-wing party in Germany also getting quite a few votes.

I had the impression that those guys were mostly death. Got replaced by the NVA and such. I mean, they lost half their voters during the last elections. (-6%) I don't think they'll make the 2014 ones.

But yeah, extreme right/ left parties always get more votes when troubles occur. It's in the nature of human beings to choose radical solutions in problematic times.

[Sheb]

Well, there is a rise of far-right, anti-immigrant and anti-Europe parties everywhere. It just happens that in Flanders, that party also took on the cloak of Flemish nationalism.

With the disparition of Spirit, is there any left-wing separatist movement left in Flanders?

[Owlbread]

Owlbread, I'd pay attention to who you're demonstrating with regarding Flemish independence. The Flemish nationalists tend to be more right-wing than the Scottish, and their complaints less justified (I mean, they are a majority within Belgium. And nowadays the closest thing to oppression is a French speaker asking for his croissants in French north of the linguistic border.)

I am paying very close attention to them. I believe they were in fact related to Vlaamse Volksbeweging, who seem to take an anti-immigrant/anti-Islam stance on things. It's a pity considering they were originally formed as an anti Fascist group.

[10ebbor10]

Owlbread, I'd pay attention to who you're demonstrating with regarding Flemish independence. The Flemish nationalists tend to be more right-wing than the Scottish, and their complaints less justified (I mean, they are a majority within Belgium. And nowadays the closest thing to oppression is a French speaker asking for his croissants in French north of the linguistic border.)

I am paying very close attention to them. I believe they were in fact related to Vlaamse Volksbeweging, who seem to take an anti-immigrant/anti-Islam stance on things. It's a pity considering they were originally formed as an anti Fascist group.

Nope, they weren't. During both world Wars, there were roughly 3 groups in the Vlaamse Beweging.
1) Activists who collaborated with the germans. (Because the germans, smart as they are, promoted Flemish as opposed to the French of the governement)
2) Passivizes, who didn't do a thing
3) The Front Movement, who protested the all French army structure* and added the letters  AVV-VVK** to the graves of Flemish soldiers.

This resulted in very heavy repression after the Second world war, with over 400 000 collaboration files, the destruction of an important war monument (Ijzertoren), and significant electoral trouble. In the end, the King had to abdicate***, and a whole can of trouble opened up, finally resulting in the language border between Belgium and Flanders.

*Illustrated by the following quote. "Et pour les Flamands la même"
**Alles Voor Vlaanderen, Vlaanderen Voor Christus ((Everything for Flanders; Flanders for Christ))
***Under pressure of the French part of Belgium actually.

Well, there is a rise of far-right, anti-immigrant and anti-Europe parties everywhere. It just happens that in Flanders, that party also took on the cloak of Flemish nationalism.

With the disparition of Spirit, is there any left-wing separatist movement left in Flanders?

The partij voor de arbeid. (Party for Labour). Though those guys don't get elected.

[Descan]

I'm fully in favor of seperatism of pretty much everyone who wants it all over the world, even the Quebecois (we might need a corridor to connect to the maritimes if that happens, but there's plenty of open space in Quebec to stick a highway and trainway that won't cause people to move)

But I'm also in favour of supra-national entities like a pan-African league or the EU or the South American Union becoming more powerful, at least if they're also more democratic (you guys don't vote for the EU council, right? That's a whole lot of bullshit to me :v)

Kind of like splitting everyone up and tying them together again into a single bundle, instead of having a whole bunch of bundles tied in to a larger bundle. Seems more stable to me, personally.

[shadenight123]

Everyone back into the Roman Empire.

We Will Rule You with a senate of three hundred members, our word will be law, and everyone else can be quiet or end up in the coliseum.

I say by the end of the year, we'd have solved every problem by feeding them to the tigers.

[Sheb]

Yeah, associating with the Germans wasn't exactly a smart strategy, on the long-term. BTW, what's that quote? "Et pour les Flamands la même"? I've never heard it.

[Descan]

The sentence "et pour les Flamands, la meme chose" originated in this environment also, allegedly being used by the French-speaking officers to "translate" their orders into Dutch. It literally means "and for the Flemish, the same thing", which adds insult to injury for Flemish soldiers not understanding French.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah, associating with the Germans wasn't exactly a smart strategy, on the long-term. BTW, what's that quote? "Et pour les Flamands la même"? I've never heard it.

There's a Wikipedia Article for everything.

Basically, all officers in the army spoke French. The poor farmers who had been conscripted as soldiers, did not. This caused some trouble for the command structure, as French officers refused to translate their orders. It has become some sort of expression for the supposedly hautaine behavior of the French.

[Sheb]

Wasn't that myth debunked though? Being callous is one thing, needlessly slaughtering your own army because you cannot be bothered to find a translator is another.

[Scoops Novel]

If we're in the mood, would anyone care to describe the other separatists mentioned? "Sardinians, Sicilians, Catalans, Venetians, Basques, South Tyrolians and Flemish."

[Sheb]

What do you want exactly? An overview of the various movement's political leaning?