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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1770807 times)

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #975 on: July 25, 2013, 12:32:13 pm »

Sounds like France, yeah - still think they're a global power. Cute ;)

Same with Britain only more repugnantly so.
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Zangi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #976 on: July 25, 2013, 12:53:57 pm »

Well, war isn't about massing up at a single area/front and fighting it out...  There can be multiple fronts and avenues of attacks.  Russia can't just send all of their forces into one spot and not expect other fronts opening where they are weaker against one of the smaller EU armies.

It is all speculations anyways, we have MAD and big brother.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #977 on: July 25, 2013, 01:04:06 pm »

Well, not in the case of a Russian annexation of part of Estonia to "protect their citizens" (citizens that can be conveniently manufactured by distributing Russian passports to russophone Estonians).

The days of large scale, total war between big blocks are over. Doesn't mean we don't need protections against smaller conflicts.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #978 on: July 25, 2013, 01:26:27 pm »

In that case, there would very likely be a replication of the events of 1940. Only in the other direction, and with more French enthusiasm.
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Zangi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #979 on: July 25, 2013, 01:29:15 pm »

Ah yes... what are the benefits for Russia in a unilateral annexation of Estonia?  (Or at least part of it?)
I don't know the region... at all.

What I can come up with:
Political Instability
Regional Instability
'Bad Boy Points'
More Citizenry who hates the government
Possible revolt/rebellion


As for Estonia, is there something happening there... where 'Russian Citizens' are getting hurt/killed/repressed?  Or is it speculation that will eventually happen and then Russia will use that as an excuse to move in?

Cause ya know.. preventing atrocity from happening will stay the Russian Bear... yes?  At least with the specific excuse of 'protecting one's citizens'.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #980 on: July 25, 2013, 01:34:06 pm »

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2013/sleepwalking-into-censorship
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #981 on: July 25, 2013, 01:37:51 pm »

Well, Bay 12 fails that on both accounts. RIP Leafsnail, have fun under Norsefire.
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Zangi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #982 on: July 25, 2013, 01:39:28 pm »

[ticked box] extremist and terrorist related content
DISCLAIMER: Unticking this box will ensure that you, your family and your associates will be tracked by the government for the rest of all time.

I can totally see benign/anti-gov't content marked as extremist and/or terrorist related.

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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #983 on: July 25, 2013, 01:42:32 pm »

Zangui, what were the benefits for Russia of invading Georgia?
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XXSockXX

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #984 on: July 25, 2013, 01:52:22 pm »

As for Estonia, is there something happening there... where 'Russian Citizens' are getting hurt/killed/repressed? 
Not really. But Estonia has a large russian minority (the Soviets settled Russians in many territories they annexed). There are some minor conflicts, like when the Estonian government tears down Stalin memorials and the local Russians see that as offensive. It's not something you could resolve easily by moving the border a bit, since AFAIK most Russians live in the capital, Tallinn. Still it's more a diplomatic thing and not something that would even potentially result in a military conflict because Estonia is in the EU.

Zangui, what were the benefits for Russia of invading Georgia?
Wasn't the last conflict just part of the whole Caucasus/South-Ossetia clusterfuck? It isn't really exactly clear who started it IIRC.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 02:03:14 pm by XXSockXX »
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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #985 on: July 25, 2013, 02:21:21 pm »

Zangui, what were the benefits for Russia of invading Georgia?
Wasn't the last conflict just part of the whole Caucasus/South-Ossetia clusterfuck? It isn't really exactly clear who started it IIRC.
AFAIK Georgia wanted to get back Abchasia (or some name like that), a province that has enjoyed de facto independence for quite some time and is under Russian protection. So Georgia tries to be a big fish, forgetting the bigger fish next door.
Reality ensued.
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #986 on: July 25, 2013, 02:30:15 pm »

At the time NATO was making noises of inviting Georgia into NATO, and had been all but promised support. The Georgian president failed to take into account that Bad Vlad was far closer than Washington and that Western promises to defend small Eastern European countries have historically tended to be full of shit.
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Zangi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #987 on: July 25, 2013, 02:40:43 pm »

Zangui, what were the benefits for Russia of invading Georgia?
Protecting the sovereignty of allied/friendly ethnic minorities that had declared independence earlier?  If you consider that portion of it invading Georgia.  Those 2 separatist regions have been 'independent' for a number of years already.
Or do you mean when Russia pushed beyond the border of the separatists into Georgia?  I suppose there was no benefit other then giving them a sound beating / showing who is boss?

EDIT: Georgia shelled a population center first?  >.>  Nevermind, it is a clusterfuck there...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 02:52:39 pm by Zangi »
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #988 on: July 25, 2013, 03:01:51 pm »

My dad was working for the Georgian government at the time, so I followed it pretty closely. Fact is the Russian "peacekeepers" had been breaching the terms of the ceasefire for a long time, going as far as letting Ossetian militias shell Georgian positions from within the peacekeeper's base, and also moving in more and more troops and stuff.

Then, on the night of the 7, Georgia got intel telling of a large column of armor moving in the Roki tunnel, the only connection between South Ossetia and Russia. Sakaashvillii decided to strike to try to take down the road from Roki to Tbilisi and fun time ensued. But no matter who actually shot first, the Russians had been provoking for a long time and were just waiting for an excuse to invade (hence why they had a whole army at the ready).

While the pretext was "protecting their citizens" (They had been handing out passports in the separatists provinces for month to manufacture those citizens), the real reason was to try to get Sakaashvilli, who was straining too far toward the West. It's easy imagining them wanting to punish the Estonians in the same way (The place where all the advisers used to hang out in Tbilisi was a flat called the Estonian kitchen. My dad still got a mug laying somewhere).

BTW, Ossetia and Abkhazia both had large Georgian population before the ethnic cleansing of the early 90 (Abkhazia) and 2008 (South Ossetia). Abkhaz were actually only 30% of Abkhazia's population. 
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Leafsnail

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #989 on: July 25, 2013, 03:07:04 pm »

Well, Bay 12 fails that on both accounts. RIP Leafsnail, have fun under Norsefire.
Well I can just uncheck the box.  Sortof tempted to turn them on to see what stupid things get blocked though.
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