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[MetalSlimeHunt]

You know you are probably the only person who actually still thinks about the Unbreakable Union of Unbreakable States thing, right? It's a century old court ruling about Confederate war bonds, it isn't important in a modern context.

I'd say the states have a large amount of autonomy. Not quite as much as Canada's confederation, but more than most polities. Hell, most stuff ends up in the hands of the states between Washington deadlock and Supreme Court rulings anyway.

[Owlbread]

You know you are probably the only person who actually still thinks about the Unbreakable Union of Unbreakable States thing, right? It's a century old court ruling about Confederate war bonds, it isn't important in a modern context.

Aged relic though it may be, it does make me shudder.

I'd say the states have a large amount of autonomy. Not quite as much as Canada's confederation, but more than most polities. Hell, most stuff ends up in the hands of the states between Washington deadlock and Supreme Court rulings anyway.

But you're asking Eastern Canada to lose autonomy and join a foreign country, all because their neighbours cut them off. It doesn't look like a very happy situation.

Anyway though, this is American politics here. We should be talking about Europe.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, we've been partially talking about Europe, mostly how to ensure that the idealistic dreams of a independent Scotland are forever tarnished by the rise of a charismatic but sociopathic leader in the name of maintaining Scottish stability by removing all civil rights and throwing people into the sea.

I know what book I could write now.

[Owlbread]

Well, we've been partially talking about Europe, mostly how to ensure that the idealistic dreams of a independent Scotland are forever tarnished by the rise of a charismatic but sociopathic leader in the name of maintaining Scottish stability by removing all civil rights and throwing people into the sea.

I know what book I could write now.

I'm sure someone would assassinate said leader before he got too far if he was representing the Orange Lodge. Then again, he'd have us rejoin Britain and dismantle our parliament and all the rest of it too. In the words of someone I saw on television, he would lay a solid egg of fuck on Scotland. We'd be ruined.

I also know exactly who it's going to be:

Donald fucking Findlay.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, we've been partially talking about Europe, mostly how to ensure that the idealistic dreams of a independent Scotland are forever tarnished by the rise of a charismatic but sociopathic leader in the name of maintaining Scottish stability by removing all civil rights and throwing people into the sea.

I know what book I could write now.

I'm sure someone would assassinate said leader before he got too far if he was representing the Orange Lodge. Then again, he'd have us rejoin Britain and dismantle our parliament and all the rest of it too.

Oh, don't be silly! No good Scot would bring the nation back under the heel of the English oppressors. No, Scotland shall stand free, and the only way to ensure that is to ensure that Scotland is...pure of all whom would weaken her. This is a friendly reminder to please report for genetic testing by the end of the month, it's the law and the best way to fight the English dogs! (descent into fascism, etc., etc.)

[Owlbread]

I know we're having a laugh, but the only people that really think like that are Siol nan Gaidheil and they don't really exist anymore (they haven't for a long time), or certain factions of Orangemen who are pro-Union, along with the entirety of the Scottish far-right. You see, rightism and Fascism in Scotland is traditionally Unionist and pro-British. They'd be talking about the purity of native "Protestant" Scots within the wider Protestant British Kingdom. It's the militant Socialists and Communists who are traditionally pro-independence. That dates right the way back to the forgotten Scottish nationalist insurrections of the early 1800s; our "Radical War" fought by Left-wing thinkers and Liberals who took a decidedly nationalist stance on constitutional matters (i.e. trying to form an independent Scottish Republic a la French Revolution). Even before that when the great bard Robert Burns was writing nationalist poetry in the late 1700s, he was writing with a recognisably leftist slant. Basically, we've had left-wing nationalists in Scotland for a longer period of time than the USA has existed.

During the Second World War our most powerful pro-Nazi politicians included the likes of Sir Archibald Maul-Ramsey, founder of the Nordic League and all-round Nazi, former Unionist Party politician of Angus. Siol nan Gaidheil was basically the only pro-independence Nazi group but they only popped up for a short while back in the '70s and have toned down a hell of a lot in the last 30 years, now they don't really exist at all beyond a few scattered websites. There were Nazi sympathies within some sections of the SNP during the Second World War, but that is in stark contrast to the original founders of the party who included the very first Socialist MP ever in Britain, an all-round hero named Robert Bontine Cunningham-Graham. Those Nazis didn't last long in the party.

But yeah, Donald Findlay is a dead ringer.

[XXSockXX]

The sort-of-sad thing about separatism in Europe is that the EU was partially conceived to resolve all these issues and strengthen regional identities as opposed to national ones. It seems to work for regions like South Tyrol or regions where separatism isn't even an issue.
On the french-german border there are lots of villages that were literally cut in half. German dialects are mostly spoken only by older people in Alsace and Lorraine, but with the open borders now, there is a lot of cooperation between communities on both sides of the border. It doesn't matter too much anymore whether a village belongs to one country or the other.
But I guess that kind of regional identity requires some federalism to be able to flourish. In the case of Scottish independence it would be more like the dissolution of Czechoslovakia, organised and peaceful, but still it seems like a step backwards.

[Owlbread]

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward.

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, maybe. At least it might cure England from thinking like they are still a super-power, when , let's face it, none of us are anymore and our only chance to have our voice heard in the world is cooperation on a european level.

[Owlbread]

Yeah, maybe. At least it might cure England from thinking like they are still a super-power, when , let's face it, none of us are anymore and our only chance to have our voice heard in the world is cooperation on a european level.

That's my hope too. That way of thinking has led to massive overspending on the military when hospitals in this country are so unclean people are dying of infections and there aren't enough beds. It's just wrong.

[XXSockXX]

I think that France and the UK have some serious issues with that line of thinking. They never really got out of super-power-mode despite losing all colonies. But in reality they ran into logistical trouble already with the bombing of Gaddafi's troops in the Libyan intervention.
We should focus more on preserving and growing wealth in Europe and we should acknowledge that we can't achieve a lot as nation states anymore. I think of the EU as a brilliant idea that is just terribly executed, but it is the only realistic option Europe has left to remain prosperous and relevant in the world.

[Owlbread]

The whole "super-power-mode" thing is one of my main issues with the UK as a whole, same with France. The EU itself is a brilliant idea but I don't think it will dissolve nation states completely - it is embedded too deep in our psyches now. We can be borderless, we can have the same currency, but we'll always be independent.

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, I don't expect to see a dissolution of nation states in my lifetime. But I think long-term-wise the whole regional identity thing might work out. I mean Germany is composed out of formerly independent states with very strong regional identities and dialects that are barely mutually understandable. If we try hard enough we might pull off some kind of working European federation in the next 100 years or so.

[Loud Whispers]

Sakkas may die soon. We could be seeing the quiet beginnings of a Greek revolt.

[scriver]

I highly doubt it.