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Author Topic: Pathfinder Non-Sequential - Girlinhat is your DM!  (Read 92107 times)

DoomOnion

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #540 on: February 19, 2013, 04:26:20 pm »

If you are going to set up another campaign, you might wanna set up a new thread. Get's cluttered super-fast, you know. :p
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Naryar

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #541 on: February 19, 2013, 04:53:04 pm »

If you are going to set up another campaign, you might wanna set up a new thread. Get's cluttered super-fast, you know. :p

Yeah.

I'll follow it gladly but 2 characters at the same time is too much for me.

Neonivek

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #542 on: February 19, 2013, 04:59:38 pm »

Ok, when I write everything up (setting information and stuuuuf) I'll open up the topic.

Though before I do make it... do you think I should make the creation rules AFTER I compile everyone's world information?
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DoomOnion

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #543 on: February 19, 2013, 05:00:28 pm »

Your game, your rules. That's the best part of being a DM. Aside from being able to buttrape your players.  :P
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Neonivek

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #544 on: February 19, 2013, 05:01:44 pm »

Your game, your rules. That's the best part of being a DM. Aside from being able to buttrape your players.  :P

Sometimes with actual buttrape... In game that is >_>

Quote
2: Creatures and especially Constructs will be open for changing.  Some goblins may be mutated far enough to be Medium creatures.  An Iron Golem might have more AC.  Certain varieties of Treants/Ents may not be as weak to fire.  This allows me (the DM) more flexibility in utilizing monsters, and also allows you (the victims players) more freedom in creating things like constructs, vehicles, and perhaps non-combat items (custom-built chests, strap a barrel to your back, etc).

This REALLY didn't need to be said. "I may make things up" is rather ordinary.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:20:53 pm by Neonivek »
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Girlinhat

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #545 on: February 19, 2013, 05:31:27 pm »

Quote
2: Creatures and especially Constructs will be open for changing.  Some goblins may be mutated far enough to be Medium creatures.  An Iron Golem might have more AC.  Certain varieties of Treants/Ents may not be as weak to fire.  This allows me (the DM) more flexibility in utilizing monsters, and also allows you (the victims players) more freedom in creating things like constructs, vehicles, and perhaps non-combat items (custom-built chests, strap a barrel to your back, etc).

This REALLY didn't need to be said. "I may make things up" is rather ordinary.
I think it did.  A lot of times people will be like "Jeeze, I'd like a specifically-sized wagon, but it's not on the list!"  But I'm like "Hire a carpenter and tell me the stats you want."  Similar for making constructs, although that seems moot since none of the party has decent enough magic.  You essentially need a wizard for making the majority of magic items.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #546 on: February 19, 2013, 05:49:30 pm »

GirlInHat, some advice on the CR stuff. Feel free to take it or leave it, but I think you're approaching this the wrong way. it sounds like your problem with the CR system isn't going to be it being inherently easy, but that you're not really using it to it's potential.

Random Encounters are supposed to have a minimal risk of life and limb, but a cost in resources. They are meant for long overland journeys, or trips into dungeons, where they wear players down through attrition. Characters don't need to worry about dieing from every fight, but they do need to worry about overextending themselves and getting roflstomped by bosses, traps, or a random encounter that caught them unprepared that they would NORMALLY be able to handle just fine, but have difficulty with simply because so many of their options are gone.

So you have a group of 6 level ones, and 4 goblins. Do your magic users use up their valuable magic? Are the goblins focusing on one player, creating a serious risk if they don't expend valuable resources? Do they have anything of value that will make the fight worth it? (Goblins generally don't, making fighting them a losing proposition even if you win) One or two good hits, and your suddenly fighting at less than optimal because you've used up a healing spell or item.

With that sort of approach in mind, where encounters and Challenge Ratings are focused on the role of an encounter in the context of a larger, longer, more grueling adventure or module, the Challenge Rating rules aren't easy at all. Depending on the length of the particular adventure, they can be quite brutal. Especially once you start getting into the higher levels where even a relatively nonthreatening creature can cause serious long term problems for the group.

Even beyond that, having the creatures react intelligently is a lot better than throwing bigger numbers at the players, which tends to make combat miserably long. A band of 4-5 properly played goblins could easily be enough of a threat to a party of six to make them seriously want to avoid the encounter. Pathfinder Goblins have bows, and darkvision, and bonus stealth (and a love for setting things on fire) - make the encounter happen at night, in the woods, as an ambush! Have the goblins light the players wagon on fire and kill their horses (Goblins absolutely hate horses) and run off gibbering, content with having murdered the foul equine beasts. Have them pursue the players, using hit and run tactics to wear them down, and if the players fail to scare them off for good or defeat them, have them stick around and show up when the players run into the NEXT encounter.

Are the goblins even TRYING to kill the players? Maybe whatever they want is worth less than the difficulty of fighting them, and giving it to them really is the best option!

Not every encounter has to be a threat to the players lives, and it shouldn't be - you want a sense of rising tension in most games, where the stakes get progressively more dire until the climax. If you're going to have encounters with level ones, take it easy and just threaten their livelihood, wealth, and valuable equipment instead. (Note: Most players will do far more to protect these things than they will their lives!) Change the flavour of the encounter by putting the players in a worse situation instead of throwing a wall of enemies at them and bogging the game down in incredibly boring mechanics and boring optimal-path outcomes. Wear them down. Make them fear passing off even an "easy" encounter not because they will die, but simply because they will come out worse than they went in and they can't afford to be worse than they went in if they are going to succeed NEXT time as well! Personally, that's enough most of the time.


Final piece of advice:
Swap monster details to make them a bit harder for players to identify. Keep them on edge, make them work those knowledge checks and stay on their toes. Don't hesitate to change bestiary details - after all, any knowledge the players have about these critters is OOC and shouldn't apply to the game anyway.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #547 on: February 19, 2013, 06:00:34 pm »

Alright, I see what you're saying, except it kinda falters because the players can easily just stop for the day and restore spells and stuff.  Attrition is more difficult when the party is able to restock at any time...  For a long dungeon, sure, but for a singular encounter, eh...  The night-time ambush is a good idea, but not for this example.  Kinda hard for a palisade outpost sneak up on you. (Although that will happen, at least once.)

I agree overall, but there's one thing.  If the encounter is made more difficult due to the setting or timing, that's fine.  But a lot of the examples I see given are straight fights - you encounter 5 sick kobolds in a forest clearing, you have 5 players in your party.  THAT is not a challenge.  That's just wasting time, if you ask me.  In this particular case, it's a fort.  It's a straight fight and there's not much room to make 'dangerous circumstances'.  I mean, I could add traps and whatnot, but it doesn't fit the situation for campaign purposes.

Special dangerous situations would fit with a lower CR, but a blunt assault I'll take enhanced CR.

Naryar

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #548 on: February 19, 2013, 06:10:57 pm »

Yeah, considering we're outside in a generally non-hostile land, attrition warfare is not worth it.

Unless our dear GM decides to torment entertain us with constant night-time attacks, ambushes and lots of random encounters, of course.

Girlinhat

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #549 on: February 19, 2013, 06:14:26 pm »

Well you might not always be in areas that you can just go buy supplies.  In such cases, potions, scrolls, and repairing equipment could become a HUGE issue.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #550 on: February 19, 2013, 08:03:40 pm »

Like I said, though, that's the sort of situation there were built for - where stopping for the night to recover your spells, and stopping in the store to recover your supplies, isn't an easy thing to do. If they are (and it sounds like, in general, they will be for your campaign), then feel free to bump the challenge level up a few notches.

But I'd generally argue for introducing them to tougher enemies rather than MORE enemies, just because internet games already tend to drag a bit more than in person ones, you're running a big party, and even in-person games lag at that size.

Consider having 3-4 goblins and, you know, actually making them dangerous. Arm them properly. Play them intelligently. This is a lot more fun than introducing a ton of rolling, in my experience!

For an example, see:
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/
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Geen

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #551 on: February 19, 2013, 09:01:01 pm »

^I'd say what he said, but also, a word from a Paranoia GM like myself: Kill the bastards. And not in the rocks-fall-everyone-dies way. Make it Fun. Pit them against each other. Offer them a reward they all want but nobody can have. Have them all be poisoned, but only have one cure. Give the insane pyro the TK-prone wand of napalm. Nethack-style cursed items in the treasure. Getting them framed for something big or put a large bounty on them so the villagers are unfriendly. Have the entire goddamn army after them. Just remember, every character has gotta die someday, so you might as well make it good, bloody, and most of all memorable.
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DoomOnion

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #552 on: February 19, 2013, 09:05:00 pm »

Except that we are not playing paranoia.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #553 on: February 19, 2013, 09:17:32 pm »

Oh I know how to ruin the party.  Very easily.

Generate some loot.

One magic amulet.

Just one.

Cthulhu

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Re: Pathfinder (Dungeons and Dragons) Girlinhat is your DM!
« Reply #554 on: February 19, 2013, 10:31:07 pm »

All of Glyph's advice is awesome.  Some more 4e apologism:  Take a look through how 4e sets up encounters.  3e and Pathfinder aren't as well-defined as 4e, but a lot of the advice they give transfers pretty well
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