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[Naryar]

Do not worry about magic arms and armor. I have something in my mind. Something big. Huehuehuehue

leadership is best feat

at least to piss off the GM with hundreds of additional rolls and rules

[Leatra]

Well, not all DMs allow that feat.

It would be pretty badass if we get involved in epic scenarios like sieges though

[DoomOnion]

I can and will void my bowels on the spot if I see a str 20+ barbarian carving through squads of soldiers with his massive flail.

[Neonivek]

Handled well Leadership is a rather weak ability though.

It is there more for roleplay then use... excluding the Cohort.

[Cthulhu]

By that you mean ruined through DM shenanigans right?

Anyway, Girlinhat mentioned somewhere that this would be a martial game involving sieges and whatnot, so Leadership would probably fit pretty well.

[Girlinhat]

As a DM I'm not going to allow Minions to enter battle, and a good reason must be given for a Cohort as well.  Since Minions are primarily level 1 and by that time the party will be level 7, they'd be worthless in battle anyways.  But they can be used outside of battle for various things.

[Neonivek]

By that you mean ruined through DM shenanigans right?

Anyway, Girlinhat mentioned somewhere that this would be a martial game involving sieges and whatnot, so Leadership would probably fit pretty well.

Well no... you have a huge group of extra squishy and poor soldiers who can barely, or outright cannot, even afford armor in a world with magic and monsters.

What do you think their chances are when a Dire Wolf could take down most of them?

I've ran dungeons where they would have been dead rather quickly.

[DoomOnion]

I think the minions are primarily for non-combat thingies and mass-combats where levels don't really matter.
You can hire mercenary / soldier hirelings for 5 sp (minimum) per day, so you can still participate in kingmaker / sieges without leadership.
Minions granted by leadership are free, they are 'dazzled' by your charming endeaver. Think of them as free hirelings.

Edit, with leadership score of 20~23, which I am very likely to achieve, you can afford up to 135 level 1 meatbags.

[Neonivek]

You can hire mercenary / soldier hirelings for 5 sp (minimum) per day

That is a huge oddity compared that they could with 0 profession... earn 6 gold a week under the rules.

Except there is a difference. The Soldiers you hire won't suicide mission for you.

[DoomOnion]

You do very well know what I mean, mister.
Point is leadership doesn't break the game in any way.
GM said she is willing to let players take leadership, with some restrictions, of course.
End of story.

[Neonivek]

You do very well know what I mean, mister.
Point is leadership doesn't break the game in any way.
GM said she is willing to let players take leadership, with some restrictions, of course.
End of story.

The biggest issue with Leadership though isn't that it breaks the game. It is that players will be pissed off when their guys get killed off and will ALWAYS come to the conclusion that the DM is picking on them because "Leadership is too strong and you are not letting me do cool stuff with it".

So it breaks the game that way

Mind you I am speaking in general.

[DoomOnion]

...which is exactly why they are non-combat only in our campaign.

[Neonivek]

...which is exactly why they are non-combat only in our campaign.

Which is always a good idea.

[Girlinhat]

You can hire mercenary / soldier hirelings for 5 sp (minimum) per day

That is a huge oddity compared that they could with 0 profession... earn 6 gold a week under the rules.

Except there is a difference. The Soldiers you hire won't suicide mission for you.

Unskilled labor earns 1sp per day, or .7gp per week.  Earning 3.5gp per week to accompany an adventurer as 'the guy who sits outside and make sure the horses don't wander off' is pretty decent money.

Mooks are also going to require upkeep, after all they do need to eat and sleep, though I've not decided on the specific price-per-mook-per-week, likely 2sp daily...  1.4gp weekly.

Mooks are going to be for fairly explicitly non-combat situations, like keeping tabs of your stockroom in town (assuming you own a warehouse for your various goods) or tending to the mules/wagons.  They can also be used to man equipment, like crewing a ship or manning a siege engine.  The siege engine WILL be directly involved in combat, as an icon on the map, but if any enemy comes within 10 feet or so, the mooks disappear into the wilderness, more or less distance depending on the situation.  If you've formed a shield wall in front of them, they'd be more courageous, but if the shield wall is being battered by 17 ogres they may not be.  When mooks abandon their siege engine, it's simply considered 'uncrewed' until the enemy has been pushed away for a number of rounds, at which point it resumes operating.  Boats and whatnot vehicles will work similarly, though there's no room to run, so they just continue working.  Ships actually have their own rules for combat that would be followed, and in ship combat the crew is mainly abstracted down to 'they're always there but invisible' sort of thing.

Similarly, Cohorts are going to be restricted as well, for the most part unable to deploy in combat or reluctant to do anything, so for the most part, Leadership is going to be heavily nerfed and unable to pull much weight in conventional fighting.  Plus, anything Leadership could do, you could also hire someone.  Hiring unskilled labor will function similarly to your Leadership mook limit.

After all, if each of you takes a cohort, combat speed drops by half, and that's not cool.

[DoomOnion]

wat. Are we going to have 17 ogres charging at us?
Oh lord. Oh god.