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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 832745 times)

Dutchling

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7935 on: August 05, 2014, 04:51:23 pm »

Still don't see the issue here, actually. The state is called Saudi Arabia so calling them Saudis makes perfect sense o.o
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scriver

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7936 on: August 05, 2014, 05:13:10 pm »

We just call them Saudi-Arabians.
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andrea

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7937 on: August 05, 2014, 05:15:38 pm »

They were called 'Turks' and not 'Ottomans'? says who? As far as I know, 'Ottomans' was used. Turks as well, but that is a bit like calling everyone in the united kingdom 'English'.

Angle

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7938 on: August 05, 2014, 05:18:30 pm »

They were called 'Turks' and not 'Ottomans'? says who? As far as I know, 'Ottomans' was used. Turks as well, but that is a bit like calling everyone in the united kingdom 'English'.

A good way to get punched by a scotsman? ;D
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Frumple

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7939 on: August 05, 2014, 05:24:09 pm »

They were called 'Turks' and not 'Ottomans'? says who? As far as I know, 'Ottomans' was used. Turks as well, but that is a bit like calling everyone in the united kingdom 'English'.
All I know is it's kinda' awkward to be calling people footstools. Turks sounds like a better name, t'me.
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GreatJustice

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7940 on: August 05, 2014, 05:30:10 pm »

Also just because things have improved, doesn't mean it was because of foreigners.  You can't just assume that, or at the very least you can't expect us to agree with you unless you provide some evidence.

Of course, I should have to prove the HDI numbers have increased across the board since the 80's. Is the argument here still that the ME would be better off without international influence? Because I'm showing you how the middle east has improved in actual statistical ways since the international community, not Russia and the US in ham fisted military ways, began to get involved with the region. Unless you seriously believe that economic and societal development haven't been helped by the international community and especially the UN getting involved in the ME.

Is the middle east not better off now than it was before the 80s? How would it be better off without outside influence?

"The 80's" is a completely arbitrary time period to use, though, since nearly all of the problems of the Middle East in the preceding period (and, indeed, afterwards) were due to interventions by the US, the UK, the Soviets and the rest of the "international community" of the time. I mean, pretty much every serious war or outbreak of turmoil in the region at the time was the responsibility of a foreign nation, be it regime change in Iran (which led to the 1979 revolution and, in turn, the Iran-Iraq war) or the constant wars relating to Israel. It seems you're just picking a random point in time and saying "See? Things are better now then they were at this point in time (which coincidentally coincided with a massive war caused by British and American regime change)!"

I mean, some things in the Middle East have improved a bit, but a lot of the improvements are from things the "international community" had little to nothing to do with; Iran is, believe it or not, quite a bit less radical and aggressive than it was immediately after the 1979 revolution, there aren't regular wars with Israel since they acquired nuclear weapons (and replaced the governments of most of their neighbours with convenient puppets), and a few countries like Turkey and Jordan have been more or less peaceful and stable.

Actually, I challenge you to find a serious incident or war in the Middle East that wasn't stoked or caused by foreign intervention, since that would actually constitute concrete evidence rather than "Well the UN did some stuff after this date and now things in aggregate are better"
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Owlbread

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7941 on: August 05, 2014, 05:49:09 pm »

Anyone else find it *extremely* weird that we have a country in the middle east, a monarchy, that has it's damned family name in it's title, Saudi Arabia... And we just roll with it? We even call the citizens "Saudi's" or "Saud's" or "the Saudi army"!

It's damned weird. It'd be like calling citizens of America "Obama's"... Or better, calling the British under the queen, "Windsors." 

I mean, I *get* that they're an absolute monarchy so basically everything *is* the Saudi's property, and I *get* that calling them Arabians could be confused, since everyone else in the area are "Arabs"... But it's still damned weird.

It's very strange. Even calling them "Saudi Arabians" would make more sense than "Saudis".
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SalmonGod

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7942 on: August 05, 2014, 09:38:00 pm »

I have no faith in U.S. ability to do anything positive through military action in the middle east until the whole apparatus isn't ruled almost completely by a sick self-sustaining conglomeration of corrupt defense industry lobbying, xenophobic Christian fundamentalism, and fear mongering propaganda orchestrated by an alliance of the former.  If we ever get that mess untangled, I might be less cynical and pre-emptively horrified at the suggestion of the U.S. military being involved in anything.
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As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Helgoland

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7943 on: August 05, 2014, 09:52:00 pm »

Dude, the Republicans aren't permanently in power. Not that those aren't worrying issues, but you seem to have an overly pessimistic view on the topic.
Take the Balkan intervention, for example. The system back then wasn't too different from the one we/you have now, and it still was a good thing, right?
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Angle

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7944 on: August 05, 2014, 10:36:42 pm »

This isn't about the republicans per se, it's about a few of their factions and their influence in the army. And those are more or less a constant.
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Strife26

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7945 on: August 05, 2014, 10:37:41 pm »

I have no faith in U.S. ability to do anything positive through military action in the middle east until the whole apparatus isn't ruled almost completely by a sick self-sustaining conglomeration of corrupt defense industry lobbying, xenophobic Christian fundamentalism, and fear mongering propaganda orchestrated by an alliance of the former.  If we ever get that mess untangled, I might be less cynical and pre-emptively horrified at the suggestion of the U.S. military being involved in anything.

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/07/us-foreign-policy-destabilize-middle-east/
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smjjames

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7946 on: August 05, 2014, 10:40:05 pm »

I have no faith in U.S. ability to do anything positive through military action in the middle east until the whole apparatus isn't ruled almost completely by a sick self-sustaining conglomeration of corrupt defense industry lobbying, xenophobic Christian fundamentalism, and fear mongering propaganda orchestrated by an alliance of the former.  If we ever get that mess untangled, I might be less cynical and pre-emptively horrified at the suggestion of the U.S. military being involved in anything.

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/07/us-foreign-policy-destabilize-middle-east/

Isn't that the military's version of The Onion?
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mainiac

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mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Bauglir

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Re: Richard Nixon's Sane Conservatism Nostalgia Megathread
« Reply #7948 on: August 05, 2014, 11:03:43 pm »

There is a part of me that thinks this would legitimately wind up being more successful than what's actually been done, and I'm desperately reaching for the reasoning to justify that belief. I'm not even done reading, I just got to the bit with the tigers.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Sergarr

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