Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 517 518 [519] 520 521 ... 667

Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 832758 times)

Angle

  • Bay Watcher
  • 39 Indigo Spear Questions the Poor
    • View Profile
    • Agora Forum Demo!
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7770 on: July 16, 2014, 08:38:47 pm »

See, the problem I had with the way they're trying to split California up is that it looks like they're just trying to leverage Conservative power. If you look at the way each new 'state' would be split, all the conservative ones are only just mostly conservative, perhaps 60%, while the liberal ones are more like 90%, if not more. It's trying to utilize the elections work to game the system.
Called it. Good work actually looking up the statistics though, that was well done.
Logged

Agora: open-source platform to facilitate complicated discussions between large numbers of people. Now with test site!

The Temple of the Elements: Quirky Dungeon Crawler

MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7771 on: July 16, 2014, 08:52:42 pm »

So, erm, holy fuck this is a disgusting story.
Quote
Smart’s arrest was the result of a massive investigation initiated by a local district attorney whose senior assistant attorney sat on the Brooks County school board. Although this conflict of interest disqualified the DA from trying the case, it didn’t prevent him from compelling the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) to launch an exceptionally large probe into the disruptive school-board election.

Yet the massive investigation failed to produce evidence that Smart or any other member of the group had defrauded or coerced a single voter. With these goods lacking, the state built its prosecution instead on proving that she and others breached technicalities like carrying envelopes containing ballots to the mail for their close acquaintances without the proper authorization.

Even on these counts, the state is struggling to make its case. VICE spoke with several Brooks County residents state prosecutors allege are the victims of voter fraud at the hands of the Quitman 10 + 2. Each of them asserted that they had successfully voted for the candidate of their choice without coercion or any impropriety. Similarly, court documents reveal that other alleged victims—called by the prosecution to testify against Smart—had little to offer the state’s case. Under oath, witnesses called by the state asserted that no fraud had taken place and said that, during interrogations, Georgia investigators had them sign personal statements that the agents had written for them.

In 2012, despite the case’s vulnerabilities, Georgia Governor Nathan Deal issued an executive order removing the three black women charged with voter fraud from the school board.
It gets worse.
What the fuck is wrong with Georgia?
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Lord Shonus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Angle of Death
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7772 on: July 16, 2014, 09:04:59 pm »

A big part of it is that state and especially local law enforcement is pretty heavily tied to the elected officials in charge of the executive branch. If a local mayor or the District Attorney pulls something stupid, and the governor backs them up (which is usually what happens, as they're often politically allied or the governor fears the voter impact of fighting with them even if the people currently think the action was wrong (If things turn out badly in the long run, shit flows downhill, and the gov's safe. If things are met with approval later, and the gov opposed it, he's ripe for defeat in the next election.) then the rest of the machine can either obey or resign. Witch hunts like this are one of the more negative consequences (while there have been a few cases lately where a similar process led to greater gay rights, so it's not always a bad thing.)
Logged
On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

GreatJustice

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☭The adventure continues (refresh)☭
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7773 on: July 16, 2014, 09:21:22 pm »


Thanks for the ground breaking revelation that stocks and unleveraged bond portfolios should have the same nominal rate of return without accounting for risk premiums.

Economics is a science, believe it or not and conflating those rates in this particular situation is about misleading as swapping Fahrenheit and Celsius values without conversion.  And then just waving your hands about unspecified cash transfers is just more of the same on the top.  But what are prices when you remove the prices from their evaluation.  Quite the koan.

The point is that the Federal Reserve isn't making any real profit on those bonds since they're barely keeping up with inflation, and even a first year econ major would know that the Fed isn't buying bonds to make a profit regardless, so you're shifting the topic.

Anyhow, from what I can decipher from your argument (inasmuch as you're making one at all), you seem to think the Fed's bond purchases and current policies don't constitute giving money to the rich because all they do is buy assets at market value, so it isn't really giving them money, just making an honest purchase. Except this argument is circular, because the "market value" of bonds these days is primarily held up by Federal Reserve asset purchases, so the "market value" is realistically whatever the Fed sets it at. Similarly, a hypothetical Fed with no restrictions on purchases could buy donuts at $5 apiece in sufficient volume to drive the price of donuts to that level, and at that point it would be the "market value", but it would be "market value" in a weird, post-Keynesian sense.

I you dont want me "changing the subject" by correcting your factual inaccuracies, stop repeating them.

That's a fun argument that market prices are meaningless if affected by participants.  I didn't know you dabbled in philosophy.  I just wade in the shallow end of political philosophy myself.

I don't recall ever saying that I expected the Fed's bonds to increase at the same rate as comparatively high risk stocks. I said that the Fed's policies meant that a 2% rate of return is basically meaningless and not a profit, but also that the Fed's purpose isn't to make a profit regardless so why do you keep harping on it

Also, market prices are meaningless when the government, or a subsidiary of the government, is capable of using fiat to completely override every other participant.

In Weimar Germany, the government instituted price controls on goods to attempt to combat inflation. Were these arbitrarily low prices at all meaningful?

In the US after the 1930s, it was illegal for individuals to own gold, and the US government very tightly controlled the flow of gold. Were the prices of gold at the time even remotely meaningful?

In the Soviet Union, there were, in fact, prices of goods and services, albeit all provided by and set by the state. Were "prices" in the Soviet Union meaningful?

etc etc etc
Logged
The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7774 on: July 16, 2014, 09:51:38 pm »


I don't recall ever saying that I expected the Fed's bonds to increase at the same rate as comparatively high risk stocks. I said that the Fed's policies meant that a 2% rate of return is basically meaningless and not a profit, but also that the Fed's purpose isn't to make a profit regardless so why do you keep harping on it

Because you called the assets worthless.  I don't really give a shit about your harebrained handwaving on the other stuff but I want to set the record straight on the fact that no, the Fed doesn't give money away.

Funny how just a post ago I was supposedly trying to change the subject and now you saying I'm harping on the same thing.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 10:07:03 pm by mainiac »
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7775 on: July 16, 2014, 10:42:20 pm »

For the record

Gold still isn't really worth it's market price. It's not useful for much beyond superconductors.

Though really, those prices were all still meaningful because that's still what the prices were. Calling it 'market price' is useful because it's true that that's the price of items given there.

Though I'm not really sure what your point with that was because it doesn't really make a difference as to the discussion...
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7776 on: July 16, 2014, 11:44:40 pm »

Though I'm not really sure what your point with that was because it doesn't really make a difference as to the discussion...

Isn't the point obvious to everyone?

Plato taught us that all things could be understood by understanding their underlying Form.  We can not see the perfect Form of law in this imperfect world but we can understand that the Form of law must be in complete harmony with wisdom and justice and can contain no chaos.  GreatJustice shows that my beliefs lack Arete because the most artificial prices (the ones closest to the Form of artificial prices) are self evidently foolish and lack wisdom, and thus virtue.  There can be no wisdom in a belief that is a mere shadow of something foolish anymore than perfect wisdom could contain ignorance.  Thus it has been demonstrated that my beliefs are foolish.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:46:28 pm by mainiac »
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7777 on: July 16, 2014, 11:48:24 pm »

Give it a rest. Both of you, mainiac and GreatJustice, accept that somebody on the Internet is wrong, and move the fuck on, for the sake of maintaining a vaguely readable thread at least.
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7778 on: July 16, 2014, 11:57:49 pm »

Plato is not an absolute authority, first off. >.>

Second off, trying to use him as one is a type of logical fallacy.

Thirdly, Plato also had some rather...unfavorable...views on democracy and the concept of equality, so I fail to see how he's relevant to this in any way, shape, or form.

Also, your entire paragraph there makes very little sense, and appears to be an attempt to appear more enlightened or something rather than an attempt to bring up an argument which is actually relevant to this discussion.

But in any case: wisdom and foolishness are not mutually exclusive, and that which appears foolish to one shows true enlightenment to another.
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7779 on: July 16, 2014, 11:59:20 pm »

His post was entirely sarcastic, if that helps.
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Descan

  • Bay Watcher
  • [HEADING INTENSIFIES]
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7780 on: July 17, 2014, 12:06:52 am »

Nono, I think the person bringing up Platonic idealism as fact in an American economics discussion is one hundred percent sincere and is in no way taking the piss.

That piss is 100% stationary.
Logged
Quote from: SalmonGod
Your innocent viking escapades for canadian social justice and immortality make my flagellum wiggle, too.
Quote from: Myroc
Descan confirmed for antichrist.
Quote from: LeoLeonardoIII
I wonder if any of us don't love Descan.

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7781 on: July 17, 2014, 05:36:42 am »

His post was entirely sarcastic, if that helps.

Why how dare you.
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7782 on: July 17, 2014, 08:40:57 am »

His post was entirely sarcastic, if that helps.

Why how dare you.
Just ignore him, he's one of those barbarian types who do not understand the proper nuances of Philosophy.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7783 on: July 17, 2014, 09:15:50 am »

Barbarians seldom display wisdom nor moderation.
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Kogan Loloklam

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm suffering from an acute case of Hominini Terravitae Biologis. Keep your distance!
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7784 on: July 17, 2014, 09:20:39 am »

4 things...

1)When I looked at this topic, after reading the first post, I hit the last page. I was lurking at the time, but....

2)The American system of government was based on a hybrid system incorporating Classical Roman and Greek thoughts on democracy and republics with the Native American Federated Tribes weird thing they had going on. I think somewhere the founding fathers even make mention of some of the native American ideals being incorporated into the system, particularly with the Articles of Confederation. I can't remember exactly what was said or where, but the inspiration wasn't just Plato or whatever nonsense is currently being argued. The USA isn't a quote.

3)Why is the voting block at the top some nonsense about Republican Candidates and not something about Drafting Elizabeth Warren. Does Bay12 really think that's less important than who is the Republican Nominee? If ya don't take a stand now, we'll face a choice between two staunch supporters of Corporatist agenda and science denial.

4)You guys really expect me to read 159 pages to understand what the heck you all are doing here?
Geeze. No WONDER people don't vote. TL, DR!
Logged
... if someone dies TOUGH LUCK. YOU SHOULD HAVE PAYED ATTENTION DURING ALL THE DAMNED DODGING DEMONSTRATIONS!
Pages: 1 ... 517 518 [519] 520 521 ... 667