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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[GlyphGryph]

people who use food-stamps for drugs and such exist.

Nitpick: These people do not exist, because you can't use food stamps for anything except food. Hence the name food stamps.

Oh my god. Please, stop making statements like this. Just... look them up first! I mean, shit, I can't even. I just can't even.

Of course they do.

Food stamps is money, and the fact that you can't legally spend it on drugs isn't exactly a problem when you can't legally spend any money on drugs.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-black-market-rise/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html?pagewanted=all

Now, it's not as common as the assholes want it to be so they can justify shutting down the entire thing, and when it's spent on non-food items it isn't even usually drugs, but you keep doing this. You keep stating, as facts, things that are obviously not true, based on logic that is obviously false. "Food stamps can only be used for food because it's in the name". Seriously? Seriously? How, exactly, would that stop anyone?

I mean, if you argued, like "Food Stamps can be used for drugs because they are all tied to IDs and if you don't present a valid ID they can't be used at all, making them untradeable", at least you'd have an argument. Not a great argument (that can be worked around), but at least it would be a reason why it would at least be difficult. But "Food stamps can only be used for food because it's in the name"? >_<

[Baffler]

Of course, where that crowd goes loses me is when they start railing against people that get abortions as contraceptive, or people who go and get them "for fun" or bullshit like that. While I'm sure it happens, I'm also sure that "welfare queens" exist, and people who use food-stamps for drugs and such exist. I just don't think they're even one percent of one percent of people getting abortions, on welfare, or on food-stamps, and that trying to stamp those 5 people and their dog out will waste time, effort, money, and adversely affect the vast vast majority who actually use the service responsibly.

This may be needlessly inflammatory, but you greatly misunderstand the other side's point of view if this is what you pick out. It might be greatly advantageous to somebody if another person died, but for obvious reasons it remains illegal for that person to kill them. If someone sees a viable embryo as a human being then aborting it is, in their eyes, just as much a murder as the first case.

[Lord Shonus]

people who use food-stamps for drugs and such exist.

Nitpick: These people do not exist, because you can't use food stamps for anything except food. Hence the name food stamps.

Oh my god. Please, stop making statements like this. Just... look them up first! I mean, shit, I can't even. I just can't even.

Of course they do.

Food stamps is money, and the fact that you can't legally spend it on drugs isn't exactly a problem when you can't legally spend any money on drugs.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-black-market-rise/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html?pagewanted=all

Now, it's not as common as the assholes want it to be so they can justify shutting down the entire thing, and when it's spent on non-food items it isn't even usually drugs, but you keep doing this. You keep stating, as facts, things that are obviously not true, based on logic that is obviously false. "Food stamps can only be used for food because it's in the name". Seriously? Seriously? How, exactly, would that stop anyone?

Food stamps can only be used to purchase food, barring a crooked supermarket or corner store that deliberately mistags the items as food. The way food stamp fraud works is typically that Person A, who is not eligible for food stamps, goes to Person B and gives them 50 dollars. Person A and B go to the grocery store together, where A buys 100 dollars worth of food on B's stamp card. This generally restricts things to close acquaintences, because B has to either be physically present or be willing to trust A with the card. It used to be much easier, when food stamps were actual stamps that came in a tear-off coupon book.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

people who use food-stamps for drugs and such exist.

Nitpick: These people do not exist, because you can't use food stamps for anything except food. Hence the name food stamps.

Oh my god. Please, stop making statements like this. Just... look them up first! I mean, shit, I can't even. I just can't even.

Of course they do.

Food stamps is money, and the fact that you can't legally spend it on drugs isn't exactly a problem when you can't legally spend any money on drugs.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-black-market-rise/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html?pagewanted=all

Now, it's not as common as the assholes want it to be so they can justify shutting down the entire thing, and when it's spent on non-food items it isn't even usually drugs, but you keep doing this. You keep stating, as facts, things that are obviously not true, based on logic that is obviously false. "Food stamps can only be used for food because it's in the name". Seriously? Seriously? How, exactly, would that stop anyone?

Food stamps can only be used to purchase food, barring a crooked supermarket or corner store that deliberately mistags the items as food. The way food stamp fraud works is typically that Person A, who is not eligible for food stamps, goes to Person B and gives them 50 dollars. Person A and B go to the grocery store together, where A buys 100 dollars worth of food on B's stamp card. This generally restricts things to close acquaintences, because B has to either be physically present or be willing to trust A with the card. It used to be much easier, when food stamps were actual stamps that came in a tear-off coupon book.

*Gives something of value to person*

*Gets handed card, gets pin*

*Hands card back when done*

[GavJ]

"Food stamps can only be used for food because it's in the name"? >_<

Sorry, simple misunderstanding. For whatever reason, I interpreted your initial statement to refer to prescription drugs, not street drugs.

Yes, you can set up some (fairly complicated and risky and probably pretty easy to catch with tax audits) scheme to juggle around food stamps for cash to buy black market items. That's just not what I thought you meant or what I was talking about *shrug*

[Vector]

THAT is why I dont think its going to be the slippery slope people think it is. This is a volley in the war on abortion, not in the war of letting the religious do whatever they want.

Contraceptives that cant cause "abortion" still need to be provided.

... The slippery slope I'm concerned about is abortion, not the other ones. We're also getting the non-picketing zones around abortion clinics in Massachusetts struck down.

Hobby Lobby is arguing that The Pill and IUDs cause abortion. This is scientifically false, but the issue in fact still covers contraceptives, not just abortifacients.

Also, Those Fucking Hypocrites.

[Angle]

Yeah, this court is pretty terrible. Not sure what we can do about it, though.

[SalmonGod]

Also, Those Fucking Hypocrites.

I can't help but laugh.  It's just so audacious.  Cartoon villain level.

[Descan]

Of course, where that crowd goes loses me is when they start railing against people that get abortions as contraceptive, or people who go and get them "for fun" or bullshit like that. While I'm sure it happens, I'm also sure that "welfare queens" exist, and people who use food-stamps for drugs and such exist. I just don't think they're even one percent of one percent of people getting abortions, on welfare, or on food-stamps, and that trying to stamp those 5 people and their dog out will waste time, effort, money, and adversely affect the vast vast majority who actually use the service responsibly.

This may be needlessly inflammatory, but you greatly misunderstand the other side's point of view if this is what you pick out. It might be greatly advantageous to somebody if another person died, but for obvious reasons it remains illegal for that person to kill them. If someone sees a viable embryo as a human being then aborting it is, in their eyes, just as much a murder as the first case.

I notice you didn't read the first half of the post. You know, the part where I said "Them seeing it as a human being, I can understand it, I just don't agree with it." ? Or the latter half, where I pointed out that making it illegal doesn't stop abortions, but it does make it riskier, so instead of one 'person' dying, it's two? Hm.

I notice that you took the one part of my post that *wasn't* talking about the idea that "fetuses are people", and said "HEY YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THEY THINK FETUSES ARE PEOPLE!"

I notice that you took my "This other stuff, besides the whole fetus-as-people argument, is absurd!" and took it to me meaning I thought everyone on the pro-life/anti-choice side thought this way?

Edit: Also to others who hopefully actually read my post and understood it, the food-stamps bit was my point. Various groups are saying that "welfare queens" and "drugged up [people]" are using welfare/food-stamps on drugs and luxuries, when it's very hard to do it and all evidence points to it not actually being that big of a thing, at least for drug-use. Though those articles about food-stamp trading being a near-billion dollar part of the economy just points more to the idea that people know more about what they need to spend money on than they're given credit, and that they should stop doing food-stamps and funnel that money directly to the people on the program. At least to begin with.

[Frumple]

... re: Food stamps, what I've seen on the ground actually (albeit rarely) happening is that the person on stamps will get food, and then sell it to other people at lower-than-grocery-store prices. This is the primary way I've noticed food stamps turning into cash -- nothing fancy with passing around cards or some such nonsense, just someone going and stocking up on a few hundred dollars worth of meat (and several dozen worth of actual going-to-eat food) and then selling it off to folks not on stamps, but (usually) still quite poor.

As shonus laid out, mostly, only I've usually not even seen the person passing over the cash present. They just give a list or whatev', if that.

[FearfulJesuit]

There was an article way back at some point about the way SNAP is used as a local currency in rural Kentucky. Essentially, if you have a hundred dollars worth of SNAP, you buy a hundred dollars worth of soda pop, then sell it to black-market soda dealers for $50. Then you spend your $50 on meth.

[SealyStar]

There was an article way back at some point about the way SNAP is used as a local currency in rural Kentucky. Essentially, if you have a hundred dollars worth of SNAP, you buy a hundred dollars worth of soda pop, then sell it to black-market soda dealers for $50. Then you spend your $50 on meth.

"Black-market soda dealers."

I have a new favorite phrase. Not that that isn't frightening.

[MaximumZero]

You can sell anything with any kind of value on the black market. It's not just for drugs and guns.

[SealyStar]

You can sell anything with any kind of value on the black market. It's not just for drugs and guns.

I just... I guess, who buys things on the black market that they could easily acquire legally?

Like, drugs and guns are legally restricted to varying levels, so if you want one that's normally illegal the black market is your only choice. But you can buy soda, for example, at just about every store in the country.

[Lord Shonus]

Price. A 12 pack of most sodas retails at between 4 and 5 dollars. Using the 50 cent to the dollar rule, a black marketer would pay 2-2.50, and sell it to you for 3.