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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 833546 times)

Lord Shonus

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5655 on: January 20, 2014, 06:20:01 pm »

That's part of the "bubble of corruption" that I mentioned. My suggestion was an example of the sort of concept that could be explored, not a "if they do wat i say, it over, lol."
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GlyphGryph

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5656 on: January 20, 2014, 06:30:08 pm »

Arent a good chunk of Mexican military weapons sourced from the US as well though? I am not sure.

Also good to remember just how close the USA came to Mexico in some places back during prohibition - it took a long time and a lot of work to root out the results of that, and honestly it wasnt looking to be a sure thing for a while. Corruption at that level is a hard beast to fight, and at this point even if the US cut off the flow of drugs AND guns between the two countries it could well not be enough to take them down.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5657 on: January 20, 2014, 06:33:21 pm »

Arent a good chunk of Mexican military weapons sourced from the US as well though? I am not sure.

I'm not sure either, but the point in contention is the claim that most cartel weapons were bought on the US civilian market, despite the fact that most of the weapons the cartel uses are not readily sold on said market. This can be easily determined by any video of the weapon being used. If they pull the trigger and it fires more than one bullet, it is not a civilian-legal weapon except under fairly rare circumstances.
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Steeled

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5658 on: January 20, 2014, 06:46:30 pm »

Arent a good chunk of Mexican military weapons sourced from the US as well though? I am not sure.

I'm not sure either, but the point in contention is the claim that most cartel weapons were bought on the US civilian market, despite the fact that most of the weapons the cartel uses are not readily sold on said market. This can be easily determined by any video of the weapon being used. If they pull the trigger and it fires more than one bullet, it is not a civilian-legal weapon except under fairly rare circumstances.
Not to mention most of those weapons are quite rare and could never supply the number of weapons the cartel uses, also if US citizens were selling things like M63s and UZIs to cartels the US government would have strung them up.
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Frumple

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5659 on: January 20, 2014, 08:39:54 pm »

Amazingly, wikipedia's page on the subject seems pretty thorough and even handed, and addresses most of what's been brought up so far.

From what I saw looking into things up to finding that bloody page and checking sources thereafter, Gryph's right on a good number of military and police weapons coming from the states (and then nice chunks of them going missing afterwards), Shonus is right that many of the weapons that come into the place aren't auto et al when they cross the border (stuff gets converted afterwards, when it comes to that sort of firearm), and Steeled is right that most of that fancy shit isn't what crosses -- a good chunk of what's used overall, and what is accountable for cartel killings, is handguns and such, not things like AKs. It's still a pretty wide spread of stuff, though. It does seem like a good chunk (if not all) of the fancier US-originating stuff is leftovers from previous conflicts down south (and elsewhere, getting smuggled over), rather than coming across the border.

Actual numbers on what's coming in from the states (either US manufactured or imported and then trafficked) seem to be something no one's quite sure about, unfortunately, and range like freaking crazy. Anywhere from "mere" thousands per year (something like 1-2% of total traffic, apparently) to upwards 80-90% of overall volume (and that's disregarding anything stated by Calderón). Stuff that seems fairly reasonable's point at something in the 20+% range on the low end, though, which is less than I thought. Definitely still pretty damn significant volume, though.

... as a kind of arse covering, though, do note I never claimed that most cartel weapons came from the civilian market, just that at least a plurality likely came from American dealers-- which does seem to at the very least be in question. Significant minority would seem to be a more accurate statement, heh.

----

Couple things I found kinda' interesting: PDF of a study attempting a statistical estimation of cross-country gun trafficking. Findings are interesting, but the methodology seems somewhat iffy. Don't really know statistics well enough to be able to fully parse what's being said, but there's some interesting stuff in it.

This thing is another PDF of a report done up by some senators. Lot of their suggestions and whatnot can be comfortably skipped over, but there's some interesting stuff in the end-notes and especially the appendix (primarily the response letter from the ATF).
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Steeled

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5660 on: January 21, 2014, 02:23:55 pm »

In other, more Asian related news
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
JAPAN- A longtime no-war pledge has disappeared from Japan's Liberal Democratic Party's annual working policy revealed on Sunday, while the ruling party vowed to continue visits to the controversial Yasukuni Shrine and push ahead constitutional revision, in another move leading the country in a far-right direction, observers said.

At its 81st LDP annual convention in Tokyo, the party removed the pledge that Japan would "never wage a war", China Central Television reported on Sunday.

In another change from last year's policy, the party added a phrase saying it will "bolster veneration for the war dead" - referring to continued shrine visits - and also made clear it will amend the country's constitution. The changes show that Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is also the party chief, will intensify efforts step by step to push Japan further into animosity with neighbouring countries, analysts said.

"The changes in the 2014 position indicate that Japan's rightward inclination is getting increasingly obvious. Removing the pledge of not starting a war is a long-term strategy for Abe," said Gao Hong, a researcher on Japanese studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Wang Xinsheng, a professor of international affairs at Peking University, said it is Abe's ultimate goal to "normalize" Japan, as indicated when he avoided mentioning the no-war pledge on Aug 15, the 68th anniversary of Japan's surrender in World War II.

The convention on Sunday was held after Japan's neighbouring countries have aired their exacerbated worries over Tokyo's attempts to change its postwar status and return to militarism.
http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/japan-drops-no-war-pledge

The next 10 or 20 years should be pretty interesting, and personally I don't see anything wrong with japan building up it's military.
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Zangi

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5661 on: January 21, 2014, 04:50:56 pm »

Considering that everyone else around them has a right to build an army...  Yea, I do not see a significant problem with what Japan is doing right now.

Of course, there will be probably be China and maybe Merica gnawing at Japan the whole nine yards.
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Dutchling

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5662 on: January 21, 2014, 04:54:04 pm »

TheTrumpet probably sees this as proof that the Great Asian Army, led by Putin, Prince of Kush, is readying its legions.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5663 on: January 21, 2014, 04:54:54 pm »

AFAIK Japan is the only country in history to have a pacifist constitution forced on them. Imagine if Germany made the USA utilize THEIR version of a constitution, fixed to neuter US influence and military power in the far future.. That would be amended to hell and back in no time. I have no issue with Japan fixing any parts they deem fixable of an arguably illegal constitution.

Quote
JAPAN- A longtime no-war pledge has disappeared from Japan's Liberal Democratic Party's annual working policy revealed on Sunday, while the ruling party vowed to continue visits to the controversial Yasukuni Shrine and push ahead constitutional revision, in another move leading the country in a far-right direction, observers said.

The convention on Sunday was held after Japan's neighbouring countries have aired their exacerbated worries over Tokyo's attempts to change its postwar status and return to militarism.


Showing the anti-Japan bias. The writer of this is a shill. Anyone care to explain why every country in the world has the right to manage their own military besides Japan?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:58:58 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5664 on: January 21, 2014, 05:01:56 pm »

Its just nice to see lingering prejudice against Japan by Jingoistic Asian countries those with a vested interest in a neutered Japan.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5665 on: January 21, 2014, 05:24:35 pm »

I honestly wonder what their reasoning would be if someone asked them WHY Japan shouldn't be allowed to do this after so long.

Probably be no comment.
Because if anyone is going to create an army of giant fighting robots to crush their opposition, it will be Japan.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5666 on: January 21, 2014, 05:32:25 pm »

I'd slot that robot's uncanny valley.  ;)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5667 on: January 21, 2014, 05:40:46 pm »

It is a shame, though. It's been argued that Japan benefited greatly from their lack of a military, as the money that would otherwise be spent there went to other sectors of the economy.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5668 on: January 21, 2014, 05:43:37 pm »

I'd argue that's because their direct rival didn't necessarily worry about actively using military power until the 90's, which is baring out now in the situations where China regularly intimidates Japanese sailors for sailing on 'their ocean'.
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bulborbish

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5669 on: January 21, 2014, 06:06:50 pm »

Oh, they've never had a non-christian. They just were all for protestant and all it's myriad types, and suspicious of the Papists.

Actually, if you are being technical, we've had up to 5 deists, and there is a significant possibility that Lincoln was an agnostic.

Sorry for bringing thing up from a couple pages ago, but it's important to realize that we more had an extremely narrow view of the president's religion beginning with Jackson.
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