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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[kaijyuu]

Yeah if you're worried about costs relating to jailing people, end the drug war.

[Alastar]

Confinement for rehabilitation/re-education purposes makes sense in, but current implementation doesn't seem iffy. Lengthy sentences as punishment beyond fines make less sense than death, torture, exile or slavery.

I find it much harder to come up up with a rational argument for them, beyond intellectual cowardice ("let's lump punishment and rehabilitation together in a drawn-out low-intensity process that doesn't make us queasy").

[10ebbor10]

It means not spending resources keeping them alive and healthy in the already overcrowded and expensive prisons (assuming it didn't take years more worth of trials and mountains of legal paperwork, but that's another issue).

Just a side note - this is a problem much better addressed by reformation of incarceration laws. A lot of the burden on the prison system comes from jailing people who would be much better served with some form of rehabilitation program, notably the large number of jailed non-violent drug offenders who are the side effect of our badly-implemented "war on drugs". I'd hesitate to use scarce resources as an argument for the death penalty; likely that wouldn't be more than a blip on the Misspending Radar.

This might have something to do with the prison-industrial complex. Link

[Max White]

Holy shit, I'm actually a little impressed USA. I mean really, you're number 1!

[10ebbor10]

Well, it depends. If the North Korean incarceration rate deviates to the higher end of the statistical guesses, then they're number one. (It's estimated to be somewhere between 600-800)

[LordSlowpoke]

you know you have a really shitty situation going on when people actually go "well at least they're not north korea"

[Funk]

if you want less people in jails then look at changing the Three-strikes laws, it only makes sense to imprison for 25+ years if the crime was for a serious or violent, not shoplifting.

[Dutchling]

if you want less people in jails then look at changing the Three-strikes laws, it only makes sense to imprison for 25+ years if the crime was for a serious or violent, not shoplifting.

Are we still talking about the US here o.O?

[10ebbor10]

if you want less people in jails then look at changing the Three-strikes laws, it only makes sense to imprison for 25+ years if the crime was for a serious or violent, not shoplifting.

Are we still talking about the US here o.O?

Yup. The idea is that if they haven't got the message after 3 imprisonments, they will never be rehabilitated. Hence, you should look them up for the rest of their life, whatever the crime is.

It's not to be confused with the antipiracy laws in some European countries, that cut your internet off after you've been caught downloading illegally 3 times.

[Funk]

Thay may not of got the message but 25 years is a vast amount of money that the state needs to find even if you feel that they should been locked up.

Im not saying that they should go free just that a shorter sentence is much cheaper and better fitting the crime.
Maybe put them on double the time or add a year on each for imprisonment, both are going to get them lock up for while.

[Dutchling]

Why would one expect a prison sentence do rehabilitate someone?

[Owlbread]

The Norwegians have an interesting system involving open prisons and such as part of a wider rehabilitation process. The prisoners I saw could ride horses and smoke cigarettes in the woods with their friends on a remote island.

If you want my opinion there are some people who are so disturbed or dangerous that they should remain in prison or some kind of restraint/close observation for the rest of their lives. That doesn't mean the majority should suffer that fate, but there are a few people who really shouldn't come out.

[Lagslayer]

It means not spending resources keeping them alive and healthy in the already overcrowded and expensive prisons (assuming it didn't take years more worth of trials and mountains of legal paperwork, but that's another issue).

Just a side note - this is a problem much better addressed by reformation of incarceration laws. A lot of the burden on the prison system comes from jailing people who would be much better served with some form of rehabilitation program, notably the large number of jailed non-violent drug offenders who are the side effect of our badly-implemented "war on drugs". I'd hesitate to use scarce resources as an argument for the death penalty; likely that wouldn't be more than a blip on the Misspending Radar.

This might have something to do with the prison-industrial complex. Link

According to another Wikipedia article, most of these people are on probation or parole. I would also argue that many of the ideas behind modern rehab could be considered at least soft brainwashing.

[misko27]

It means not spending resources keeping them alive and healthy in the already overcrowded and expensive prisons (assuming it didn't take years more worth of trials and mountains of legal paperwork, but that's another issue).

Just a side note - this is a problem much better addressed by reformation of incarceration laws. A lot of the burden on the prison system comes from jailing people who would be much better served with some form of rehabilitation program, notably the large number of jailed non-violent drug offenders who are the side effect of our badly-implemented "war on drugs". I'd hesitate to use scarce resources as an argument for the death penalty; likely that wouldn't be more than a blip on the Misspending Radar.

This might have something to do with the prison-industrial complex. Link

According to another Wikipedia article, most of these people are on probation or parole. I would also argue that many of the ideas behind modern rehab could be considered at least soft brainwashing.

The argument could the be made that, if our options are running a person's life out, or forcibly changing their minds, the latter is preferred. We don't have any pleasant options. The person, the person who is in jail, is the same person who committed a crime, and therefore can't be allowed out.  The only options are to end the person as they are, or release them later simply because we can't afford to keep them there forever. Prison takes a life by degrees. Execution takes a life in a moment. Rehabilitation changes the person, yes,  removing the person as they once were from existence, and substituting a similar. Given all options are equally immoral, or morally ambiguous enough to cause reasonable doubt, only the practical factor should be considered.

On a related note, California is currently far above capacity for their prisons, and a judge has ordered prisoners released if California does not address the problems of Prison Quality of life. They currently have to find a way to be rid of over 10,000 inmates, at this point likely through shuffling them out of state and prison reforms.

[Lagslayer]

We will probably just have to agree to disagree, then. I feel that allowing a person to maintain some of the dignity of the person they are, even if it means death or life imprisonment, is preferable to manipulating and twisting everything they ever were into a more "socially acceptable" form. I detest the thought of manipulating people in that manner. A mind is a terrible thing to lose.