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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 194 195 [196] 197 198 ... 667

Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 839892 times)

lue

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2925 on: October 08, 2013, 02:14:32 pm »

Here's my question:
Why the fuck does Boehner control what bills get sent to the floor?
Where the fuck is that in the constitution, and how the fuck does that work?

Because it's the rules they decided. They decided those rules because the Constitution. Article 1, Section 5, Clause 2 comes in here again.

Why, exactly, can't they just fucking ignore him.

They can! It's called a discharge petition, which basically takes a bill out of whatever step in the process it's in and brings it to the floor for a vote, in spite of whatever the leadership thinks. Incidentially, House Democrats are currently in the throes of doing just this. It's really difficult to pull off, but that is an option.
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misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2926 on: October 08, 2013, 02:20:19 pm »

Quote
The validity of the public debt of the United States..shall not be questioned.
One of the lesser-known clauses of the fourteenth amendment. There is a increasingly loud argument that Obama has The right to intervene off the debt ceiling is breached. Obama himself had questioned it, likely to prevent two public's from putting the onus on him to save the country.

The tea-Party powerful because their Actual political power but because of the power they hold as s white over republicans. Everywhere, all the time they threaten a challenge from the right. A lot of established republicans were knocked out when they came to power, and it still stings. You either join them, or more accurately bid along, purpose your seat in a party shifting ever gathered to the right.
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lue

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2927 on: October 08, 2013, 02:24:52 pm »

Quote
The validity of the public debt of the United States..shall not be questioned.
One of the lesser-known clauses of the fourteenth amendment. There is a increasingly loud argument that Obama has The right to intervene off the debt ceiling is breached. Obama himself had questioned it, likely to prevent two public's from putting the onus on him to save the country.

Yeah... I'm with Obama in saying that it's a severe stretch to say that means he can raise the debt ceiling himself, but if it comes down to the final moments and Obama has to pull this, I would support it fully.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2928 on: October 08, 2013, 02:34:20 pm »

Quote
The validity of the public debt of the United States..shall not be questioned.
One of the lesser-known clauses of the fourteenth amendment. There is a increasingly loud argument that Obama has The right to intervene off the debt ceiling is breached. Obama himself had questioned it, likely to prevent two public's from putting the onus on him to save the country.

Yeah... I'm with Obama in saying that it's a severe stretch to say that means he can raise the debt ceiling himself, but if it comes down to the final moments and Obama has to pull this, I would support it fully.
Of course, we know that in this case the Tea Party will do everything in their power to introduce the Articles of Impeachment if he does.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2929 on: October 08, 2013, 02:41:10 pm »

The tea-Party powerful because their Actual political power but because of the power they hold as s white over republicans.

i'm sorry, but i appear to have a hard time processing this statement

the tea party is powerful (not) because of their actual political power but because of they power they hold over the republicans? this is a lot of guesswork.
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Darvi

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2930 on: October 08, 2013, 02:58:27 pm »

I think this was what he meant to say, but then the NSA started editing his post so he had to send it off before it was completely corrupted.
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Zangi

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2931 on: October 08, 2013, 03:12:32 pm »

The tea-Party powerful because their Actual political power but because of the power they hold as s white over republicans.

i'm sorry, but i appear to have a hard time processing this statement

the tea party is powerful (not) because of their actual political power but because of they power they hold over the republicans? this is a lot of guesswork.
Republicans as a whole have a majority.  230-ish versus 200-ish.   This also means a person from the Majority party becomes 'Speaker', who is currently Bhoener.
But... the Tea Party candidates holds around... 30(?) seats.  Well whatever the number, they have enough to say 'No' to whatever plans the normal Republicans try to push through.  Cause they can just simply abstain or even vote against the Republican majority's backed bills.
So the Republicans NEED the Tea Party members or they won't really have majority anymore.  (Considering it, seems to be no compromise/negotiating going along the party lines... or at least it has gone progressively worse over time...)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2932 on: October 08, 2013, 03:19:01 pm »

Essentially, the power of the Tea Party is in that they have absolute party discipline. The Chinese Communist Party doesn't have as much internal discipline as them. It has literally gone up to the threat of economic apocalypse to make them flinch before, and now it is again.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2933 on: October 08, 2013, 04:23:04 pm »

The Tea Party comes up with its own health plan...which is basically Obamacare with moar socialism.

What?
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2934 on: October 08, 2013, 04:28:47 pm »

See, this is just more proof that at the end of the day, the Republicans don't really oppose much of what Obama does because they have an ideological disagreement. They oppose what Obama does because he's Obama. As I said before, sore losers.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2935 on: October 08, 2013, 04:43:37 pm »

I would [frankly] be amused if the President and Democrats were to sign on to the plan. Either Obamacare gets passed under a different name, or the Republicans lose even more face.
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Bauglir

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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

lue

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2937 on: October 08, 2013, 05:46:08 pm »

Democratic Action Plan:

Step 1: Encourage the rest of the GOP to go along with Issa's plan, without looking like they are actually encouraging it.
Step 2: "Fine, I guess we'll go along with your stupid plan."
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
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Bauglir

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2938 on: October 08, 2013, 05:52:36 pm »

I'd view that as an acceptable outcome, but not ideal. Unfortunately, my ideal outcome is that the Tea Party concedes, because it's the only way we'll ever see an end to this nonsense, but it'll be a cold day on the Sun before that happens. Any outcome they view as a success will only convince them that hostage-taking is successful, and any outcome that isn't an explicit admission of failure is one they'll view as a success. Any negative consequences of such a "success" will be viewed as the Liberal Establishment hating on them for being the One True Saviors of America, an unnecessary imposition of suffering on the American People by a cartoonishly evil supervillain, and certainly not an actual consequence of the Tea Party's efforts.

EDIT: I don't think they're exactly stupid, evil, or insane, mind. They're fed up with an unjust world, and they're naive enough to think they can fix it with a single dramatic act of valor. They're basically teenagers.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 05:54:56 pm by Bauglir »
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

scriver

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: NOVEM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2939 on: October 08, 2013, 06:18:59 pm »

The Tea Party comes up with its own health plan...which is basically Obamacare with moar socialism.

What?

...

* scriver puts another mark in the "Tea Party - Greatest Satirists Ever" column.
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