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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[wierd]

RE-Pet peeve:

"Papers please" and "move along citizen!" By any other name. When a government reacts with such fear and paranoia of its own citizens that it has to resort to brutality and subjugation. Why notnot make the comparison? Sure quacks like the duck.

As for the "not everyone is as educated as you"--- presumably, our politicians have not only gone to premiere ivy league institutes of higher learning, but have spent many years of their lives studying politics and political history.

The question was how the politicians could fall for the trap. Not the citizens.  (With the implication that having been so educated, how could they in good conscience ever promote such legislation?)

[Mrhappyface]

I hope they bang their shins on a coffee table.

[Xantalos]

I hope they bang their shins on a coffee table.

Hey hey now, there's irresponsible shenanigans that may end the world that deserve dire recourse, but no one deserves that.

[misko27]

RE-Pet peeve:

"Papers please" and "move along citizen!" By any other name.

As for the "not everyone is as educated as you"--- presumably, our politicians have not only gone to premiere ivy league institutes of higher learning, but have spent many years of their lives studying politics and political history.

The question was how the politicians could fall for the trap. Not the citizens.

First, comparing a classically fascist system to America is hyperbole by someone who has spent time under only the latter. It's Godwin's  law by another name, and I do not play around with such comparisons, nor do I tolerate others doing so.


And as for congress, but who elects them? Congress did not simply come into being, nor was it imposed on us by some Abusive Precursors, as people seem fond of forgetting. It is entirely up to the people to put them into power, which they seem quite fond of doing. I would like someone to explain how everyone, 87% of the country, disapproves of Congress, and yet they continue to be re-elected (True, it is sometime until next elections, but they had a approval of 20% last election, and by and large things stayed the same).

[mastahcheese]

I hope they bang their shins on a coffee table.

Hey hey now, there's irresponsible shenanigans that may end the world that deserve dire recourse, but no one deserves that.

Shin banging is deserved.

Nobodies saying that Lego's should be stepped on.

[Max White]

Which only proves my point further. Traumatic experiences lead to panicked reactions, followed shortly thereafter by the return of reasonable thought. Basic human psychology.

But it does go to show that while we become more rational about a given threat, our standard reaction to new things always remains the same. First Witches, then Communists, then Terrorists. Just because people start to wake up to how the threat of terrorists is being used to manipulate them doesn't mean things will get any better when the next monster under the bed shows up. They will think of a new label and we will all do the same old song and dance.

[wierd]

Ok..

"May they have an itch that they can never scratch."

Misko:

You are forgetting some very important facts.

1) the candidates presented in the primary elections are already pre-screened by their respective parties. The voters DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE THEM.

2) even with the above, that does not absolve the politicians from presumably knowing better, but still engaging in the alarmism and power grab.

In regard to the reference to godwin, that rule relates to nazis. The stazi was a secret police force tasked with monitoring the activities and lives of the citizens of east germany, most heavily concentrated in east berlin. For all intents and purposes, they were above the law, and have very profound historical parallels with our current NSA and TSA operations, especially in regard to their involvement with secret courts, and secret verdicts/punishments.  The comparison is apt. They just aren't nazis.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Which only proves my point further. Traumatic experiences lead to panicked reactions, followed shortly thereafter by the return of reasonable thought. Basic human psychology.

But it does go to show that while we become more rational about a given threat, our standard reaction to new things always remains the same. First Witches, then Communists, then Terrorists. Just because people start to wake up to how the threat of terrorists is being used to manipulate them doesn't mean things will get any better when the next monster under the bed shows up. They will think of a new label and we will all do the same old song and dance.

I'm not so sure about that. Standard reaction to anything new (not even threatening) was originally murder. The severity of these reactions have been going downhill throughout human history.

[Max White]

I'm not so sure about that. Standard reaction to anything new (not even threatening) was originally murder. The severity of these reactions have been going downhill throughout human history.

You say that but then Guantanamo is a thing. I think we have just got a little better at hiding things.
We still make drone strikes on civilian targets in the Middle East, except now it is treason to tell anybody about it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think you are lacking an appreciation of scale here. Less than a century ago, mass internment and firebombing entire cities was as far as you went if you were enlightened and democratic. Guantanamo isn't good, but it never held more than a few thousand people, almost all of whom have been either found guilty in trial or let go by this point (and the remainder likely to be let go sooner rather than later). Drone strikes have way less collateral than what people used to do when they wanted people dead, and they're still fairly unpopular.

Can you imagine what the response would have been if the US went scorched earth on Afghanistan after 9/11? No sign that Kabul ever existed by New Years Eve 2001?

[Max White]

I guess there is some level of truth there... But I don't think the Terrorists are the last 'great threat' we will ever see from civilization. Still too many people with these base tribal instincts to subjugate and destroy anything that is dissimilar to themselves. Moving forward? I guess so. Close to the end? I am doubtful.

[Xantalos]

I guess there is some level of truth there... But I don't think the Terrorists are the last 'great threat' we will ever see from civilization. Still too many people with these base tribal instincts to subjugate and destroy anything that is dissimilar to themselves. Moving forward? I guess so. Close to the end? I am doubtful.

You guys reached the quarter mark, maybe the halfway point by now.

[wierd]

Does not excuse the now quite well leaked evidence of US tampering in elections, the illegal distribution of armorments to enemy agents like with the bengazi scandal, and other such things.

We might be pinpoint robot killing targets to avoid doing what isreal did to palestine with those white phosphorus shells, but we more than make up for that "humane" tactic by sewing dischord and violence in the region 24/7, 356 days a year in secret.

[FearfulJesuit]

The first day of shutdown has ended. No real developments have arisen today; Washington is consumed by a great awkward silence, except for the first major part of Obamacare, which despite all the attempts to kill it over the past few years, has gone live. The Republicans' demands will look even more absurd in a few months as the rest of the law kicks in. Peace.

[wierd]

That's assuming they don't go full suicide bomber, and fail to reach a budget and debt ceiling bill before the 15th.

In which case, there won't be a treasury to fund the law.