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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Mlamlah]

I don't actually think the blame in this particular situation is equal, I think the specific republicans involved in abusing their authority in this instance are the ones accountable. Everyone else here did the job they were assigned to here with varying degrees of skill, *except* the people who decided to specifically *not* to their job in order to pursue a political agenda they otherwise would have very little power to pursue in this particular moment.

[Max White]

Conclusion: Us is worse of than Greece, but nobody dares to admit it.

Difference is that people depend on the US appearing to be ok, while the Euro depends on Greece actually doing well...

Ok so the difference is also debt per capita, Greece having a much smaller population to actually pay back that debt, but that would be actual boring numbers rather that snide economic commentary.

[Mlamlah]

Strangely enough, Americans pay more per capita in tax revenue towards healthcare than many more socialized countries, so this whole nonsense about saving money by cutting healthcare doesn't actually neccecarily agree with the numbers.

[Sheb]

Greece is actually fairly close to primary surplus (Aka, they wouldn't have a deficit if it wasn't for debt repayment).

However, I'd like to point out that the US doesn't have a huge deficit problem. It's deficit stand a 4% right now, large, but no huge. The main problem is that healthcare costs are going to skyrocket in the future, as well as Social Security payments. And of the two parties, only the Democrats have a willingness to solve this (Republicans may howl how they want about budget-deficits, but they're the one that ivnented the term "death panels" for avisory cost-saving board, and attacked Obama for cutting medicare by I don't remember how much during the presidential campaign)

BTW, Germany is paying around 0.8 percentage points less on its debt that the US. If only Congress stop being such a bitch and got it's act together, it's not impossible interest rates would converge. That would save 136 billions a year. 1.5 sequester.

Also, if you want numbers, the Economist publishes figures every week for the major macro-economics indicators. Here & here.

[wierd]

Another one of the reasons why healthcare is radically unafordable here in the states, is because we get reamed hard by the pharmaceutical industry, and often pay more than five times what other western countries pay for drugs.

This happens, because our government allows it.

[Mlamlah]

Another one of the reasons why healthcare is radically unafordable here in the states, is because we get reamed hard by the pharmaceutical industry, and often pay more than five times what other western countries pay for drugs.

This happens, because our government allows it.

It's hard to negotiate for good prices as needed in a free market economy when the object you are negotiating for is *literally* something you need to live. Governments are in a much better position to negotiate on our behalf.

[wierd]

I agree, but the issue is, again, (like the tax issue), that our representatives have a financial interest to NOT represent us, but to instead play grope and tickle with lobbyists.

[Sheb]

And it's not only drugs, it's all medical procedures. Although to be honest, the fact that many people default on medical debt or settle for less than they're billed (or their insurances negociate discounts) mean the quoted price are usually above what people pays.

The whole pricing system is a mess.

[SalmonGod]

I agree, but the issue is, again, (like the tax issue), that our representatives have a financial interest to NOT represent us, but to instead play grope and tickle with lobbyists.

And the lesson we learn here is...?

[10ebbor10]

CIA world fact book puts the US debt at 7% of GDP right now. That was last year, and it would surprise me if it dropped to 4%*. However, even if it did, that number is considerably larger for the US than for any European country, as the US's tax incomes are procentually roughly half those of other countries.

Additionally, relying on interest rate to drop is a pretty bad way to balance a budget. It would be nice for many countries in the EU if they had the same rate as Germany. Would make the budgets much easier to balance.

*Probably a result of the source excluding several sources of expenses. Happens constantly.

Another one of the reasons why healthcare is radically unafordable here in the states, is because we get reamed hard by the pharmaceutical industry, and often pay more than five times what other western countries pay for drugs.

This happens, because our government allows it.

It's hard to negotiate for good prices as needed in a free market economy when the object you are negotiating for is *literally* something you need to live. Governments are in a much better position to negotiate on our behalf.

Problem is that the US somehow developed a group of middle Men, who negotiate between hospitals and producers. These need to make profit too, and take a significant cut. Additionally, because of high hospitalization prices, many people can't pay, forcing the hospitals to increase prices even further to make a profit.

I agree, but the issue is, again, (like the tax issue), that our representatives have a financial interest to NOT represent us, but to instead play grope and tickle with lobbyists.

And the lesson we learn here is...?

Liberté,Fraternité, Egalité?

[wierd]

That financially motivated lobby groups are essentially just legalized bribery?

That our politicians need to be legally barred from holding public stock while in office?

That we need to just give all our current crop of assholes concrete shoes, and grab random morons off the street, because they will do a better job?

[Max White]

Pharmaceuticals are somewhat interesting by their very nature. You see you can patent drugs, and in general this is a good thing. Otherwise companies would never invest the amount of money required to develop these drugs knowing others will just take their research without paying the piper. The idea is that when you invest in something and own that product.
Except drugs aren't abstract, creative intellectual property like music or games, they are chemicals, and as such there are only so many options that will work for a given problem. While the chances that two artists produce the same piece of art is near impossible, it is possible that two chemists will design the same drug. This means that who ever develops the drug first wins the race and the other companies have to carry the expense of all that wasted research, and put it onto the other drugs they own, amping up the cost. It also makes pharmaceutical companies a lot more hesitant to green light research that might conflict with what others are already doing, meaning that many useful cures are just never developed.

The proposed solution is a patent system where as if you can prove that you developed a drug through your own independent research you get a share in the patent, meaning no wasted research. Many chemists whos first priority is curing people support this kind of approach, hoping for a better deal for everybody. Unfortunately there are very, very few corporate lawyers who approve of this sort of system, citing the possibility of people using forged research to steal patents, ignoring the fact that the actual research process is very carefully monitored. In the end it is we who suffer for it.

Sorry, just wanted to go on that little rant.

[Sheb]

10ebbor, I was just trying to put a cost on the GOP's antics. Although managing your interest rate can be a way to help your budget. It's the whole idea behind Eurobonds for exemple.

[Mech#4]

Pharmaceuticals are somewhat interesting by their very nature. You see you can patent drugs, and in general this is a good thing. Otherwise companies would never invest the amount of money required to develop these drugs knowing others will just take their research without paying the piper. The idea is that when you invest in something and own that product.
Except drugs aren't abstract, creative intellectual property like music or games, they are chemicals, and as such there are only so many options that will work for a given problem. While the chances that two artists produce the same piece of art is near impossible, it is possible that two chemists will design the same drug. This means that who ever develops the drug first wins the race and the other companies have to carry the expense of all that wasted research, and put it onto the other drugs they own, amping up the cost. It also makes pharmaceutical companies a lot more hesitant to green light research that might conflict with what others are already doing, meaning that many useful cures are just never developed.

The proposed solution is a patent system where as if you can prove that you developed a drug through your own independent research you get a share in the patent, meaning no wasted research. Many chemists whos first priority is curing people support this kind of approach, hoping for a better deal for everybody. Unfortunately there are very, very few corporate lawyers who approve of this sort of system, citing the possibility of people using forged research to steal patents, ignoring the fact that the actual research process is very carefully monitored. In the end it is we who suffer for it.

Sorry, just wanted to go on that little rant.

Could it lead to that "Now with added X" stuff I see on products? Slight variations on an existing formula, would that count as a new patent? I believe something similar happens with petfood, people apply for patents for combinations with extra... say... liver or whatever.

[wierd]

Pharmaceuticals are somewhat interesting by their very nature. You see you can patent drugs, and in general this is a good thing. Otherwise companies would never invest the amount of money required to develop these drugs knowing others will just take their research without paying the piper. The idea is that when you invest in something and own that product.
Except drugs aren't abstract, creative intellectual property like music or games, they are chemicals, and as such there are only so many options that will work for a given problem. While the chances that two artists produce the same piece of art is near impossible, it is possible that two chemists will design the same drug. This means that who ever develops the drug first wins the race and the other companies have to carry the expense of all that wasted research, and put it onto the other drugs they own, amping up the cost. It also makes pharmaceutical companies a lot more hesitant to green light research that might conflict with what others are already doing, meaning that many useful cures are just never developed.

The proposed solution is a patent system where as if you can prove that you developed a drug through your own independent research you get a share in the patent, meaning no wasted research. Many chemists whos first priority is curing people support this kind of approach, hoping for a better deal for everybody. Unfortunately there are very, very few corporate lawyers who approve of this sort of system, citing the possibility of people using forged research to steal patents, ignoring the fact that the actual research process is very carefully monitored. In the end it is we who suffer for it.

Sorry, just wanted to go on that little rant.

Could it lead to that "Now with added X" stuff I see on products? Slight variations on an existing formula, would that count as a new patent? I believe something similar happens with petfood, people apply for patents for combinations with extra... say... liver or whatever.

No. Recent patent system reforms that somehow, MIRACULOUSLY DID PASS, make that not count as novel, and thus not qualify for patent protection. It came about after many companies just changed the substrate they mixed the compound in to make "Extended release!" versions, and tried to get new protections.