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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Mlamlah]

I'm sorry, but the Democrats have plenty of stuff they'd like to do (raises taxes, cap-and-trades...) that they aren't able to do because they don't control both houses. You don't see them threatening to default to get their way.

The rule is, if Congress can't agree to change a law, we go with the law of the land, in this case, Obamacare. You don't threaten to blow everything to have it your way.

Exactly, if someone else in the company is handling something in a way you don't like you don't threaten to stop doing your job until they do things differently. You would end up fired, because that's a retarded and petty thing to do.

[Sheb]

Not to say Democrats are totally innocent from the wider gridlock. (Tax reform would be easier if they didn't insist it be used to raise revenues for example). But on the subject of the debt limit, yeah the GOP are acting like assholes.

[kaian-a-coel]

So apparently US politics being assholes has effects on the entire fucking solar system, since curiosity just shut down.

Imagine captain kirk receiving a message telling him to shut down all non vital system on the enterprise because the Federation congress didnt agree on the budget.
That's how absurd I think it is.

I'm actually more mad about (earth-made, robotic) martians being touched by this madness than at the prospect of world-ending economic collapse. Not sure how to feel about that.

[Sheb]

Oh, don't worry, the army is still getting paid.

[Darvi]

In the meanwhile, somebody in a galaxy far a way a long time ago, felt like a million voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[Digital Hellhound]

Oh, don't worry, the army is still getting paid.

According to a graph in a Finnish newspaper (sourcing the New York Times), 86% of all NSA employees are also still getting paid. Okay, I'm sure they're essential personnel somehow but considering what NSA is now most famous for...

[Il Palazzo]

And, of course, the congressmen are also getting paid.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Oh, don't worry, the army is still getting paid.

Only until October 7th. For the latter half of the Countdown to Doomsday, Strife won't be getting paid either.

And, of course, should we actually reach Doomsday nobody is ever getting paid again.

[Baffler]

Hopefully not getting paid will be enough incentive for the critters to get the debt ceiling raised. Does anyone know what's happening out there? The most I can find is news agencies flipping their shit about the shutdown. It's a real mess down there, near as I can tell. I expect Obama will be making a speech here pretty soon. But there's still Iran and other things to deal with. Perhaps I should buy some canned food while my money's still worth something I'm sure it'll be fine. We have 16 days to get it done, after all.

*nervous laugh*

[Leafsnail]

Do you know what would make the debt less expensive to maintain?  Not constantly threatening to default on it

[RedKing]

The media is focused on making the GOP look bad for this, but the Democrats were equally unwilling to negotiate.

Dems: "We want to raise taxes, develop more social programs and cut military expenses."

Reps: "We won't let you raise taxes, we want you to cut social programs and we won't let you cut military expenses."

Dems: "We're going to anyway."

Reps: "We're not going to let you anyway."

Dems: "Well, let's be bipartisan about this."

Reps: "Are you willing at all to cut or limit your social programs?"

Dems: "Nope."

Reps: "Guess we can't be bipartisan about it, then."

*Later, near deadline*

Reps: "So are we going to be bipartisan about this and try to sort out a compromise on cutting social spending?"

Dems: "Nope. We won't allow anything that cuts our social spending."

Reps: "Guess we just deadlock it, then."

Dems: "Alright, but we're just going to say that you're the bad guys."


Not happy with the probably cause of the Reps wanting to remove the medical equipment tax and try and take out Obamacare. Reeks of American Medical Association lobbying.

Sorry, but no. It's more like this:

Dems: We want to pass a large overhaul bill of the healthcare system in this country.

Reps: Death panels! They're gonna gas grandma! Blah! Blah! Scaaaaary!

Dems: Okay fine, how about we just overhaul health insurance? And make it not take effect for another couple of years?

Reps: Fuck you!

Dems: Let's put it to a vote.

Reps (after much kicking and screaming): Okay.

Dems: Whew....won the vote.

Reps: What?? NOOOOOOO! Curse you Emperor Obama, but this isn't over yet! I'll get you and your little dog too!

And then for the next couple of years the Reps try to repeal it about once a week or so (no shit...the Republicans have tried AND FAILED 42 times to repeal the ACA)

And now they're trying a 43rd time, only using the threat of government shutdown as leverage. I think the Democrats are utterly justified in saying, "You know what? FUCK YOU. We're done playing this stupid little game."


I stand by my earlier assertion that when a group of radicals holds the nation's government hostage to their demands, you don't negotiate in committee, you go Seal Team Six on their asses. If they try to tie killing Obamacare to the debt ceiling debate (which you know they will)....I'd say that crosses the threshold past irresponsibility into treason, given the consequences of a default.

[Nadaka]

Not to say Democrats are totally innocent from the wider gridlock. (Tax reform would be easier if they didn't insist it be used to raise revenues for example). But on the subject of the debt limit, yeah the GOP are acting like assholes.

Tax reform that doesn't raise revenues is not tax reform. It is rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic... in order to form a barrier that blocks everyone that doesn't have first class tickets from the lifeboat loading area.

[SalmonGod]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The media is focused on making the GOP look bad for this, but the Democrats were equally unwilling to negotiate.

Dems: "We want to raise taxes, develop more social programs and cut military expenses."

Reps: "We won't let you raise taxes, we want you to cut social programs and we won't let you cut military expenses."

Dems: "We're going to anyway."

Reps: "We're not going to let you anyway."

Dems: "Well, let's be bipartisan about this."

Reps: "Are you willing at all to cut or limit your social programs?"

Dems: "Nope."

Reps: "Guess we can't be bipartisan about it, then."

*Later, near deadline*

Reps: "So are we going to be bipartisan about this and try to sort out a compromise on cutting social spending?"

Dems: "Nope. We won't allow anything that cuts our social spending."

Reps: "Guess we just deadlock it, then."

Dems: "Alright, but we're just going to say that you're the bad guys."


Not happy with the probably cause of the Reps wanting to remove the medical equipment tax and try and take out Obamacare. Reeks of American Medical Association lobbying.

I despise America's politics as much as you do, to the point that I refuse to vote for either party, but I still disagree with you on two points.

1.  While the two parties are just as polarized as you say, the republican side is many many many times worse about refusing to make concessions, and is the only side that threatens to destroy everything to get what they want.  Yes, democrats are participating in the game of chicken right now, but they've also given in to republican demands several times before, without getting anything in return from them.  This has been the standard political routine of most of my adult life.  As much as I hate both sides, I still would rather not see their political conflicts permanently dominated by the side that decides to act most like a tantruming toddler.  The republicans are just going to do the same thing every fucking year until the democrats decide to throw down on it with resolve, and the sooner the better.

2.  There's no reason we can't afford social programs that offer a lot more than ours do currently.  We're so far behind the rest of the developed word in this regard, it's fucking sad and pathetic.  The cost of our programs isn't a matter of size, but of inefficiency.  It is this way because republicans go to these extremes to prevent any attempt at a step towards improvement.

[10ebbor10]

Do you know what would make the debt less expensive to maintain?  Not constantly threatening to default on it

US debt is not expensive, I mean, you have interest rates lower than significant parts of Europe, despite the fact that we have:
a) A system and progress in place to eliminate deficits
b) Much less of a deficit to begin with.
c) A system in place, with a massive amount of funds, to bail out a nation should it, for some reason, need to default on it's debts.

You're only allowed to complain when you're over 4%.

[Loud Whispers]

Regardless, the GOP is going to be hurting from this. The media is putting all of the negative attention on them, and unless they actually deadlock the US into defaulting in a couple weeks, they'll probably lose support from their lobbies since they didn't stop Obamacare.

The US government has until the 18th of October; in addition every day devalues the dollar [the pound is currently experiencing its strongest value against the dollar in 6 months] and drops the amount of investors in the American stock market [people have already sold loads, it's already falling].
Best case scenario, the kerfluffle is resolved quickly one way or another and the only lasting impact is a distrust in the petrodollar.
Worst case scenario, the risk of investing simply becomes not worth the gains and recession 2 electric boogaloo begins.
Dante must DOOM scenario, October the 18th US debts default.