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[kerlc]

I don't know very much about japanese weapon making techniques, but i know that the quality of iron ore in Japan isn't exactly high, so japanese steel, even if improved upon by various techniques couldn't be as good as western steel that had the vantage point of having high-to-medium quality iron ore.

But i've been mistaken before.

[scriver]

This thread is hilarious. Please continue to post.

Also it should be renamed "Arms, Armour and Armchair Discussion".

[Darvi]

"Arms, Armour, and Armchair Argumentation"?

[kerlc]

Arms, Armour and Armchair Weaponization.

[kerlc]

Arms, Armour and Armchair Westernization.

Auto-corrected that for you.

... Now I'm imagining an armchair dressed as Clint Eastwood from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly."

[Darvi]

Arms, Armour and Armchair Armamentification.

[kerlc]

Arms, Armour and Armchair Alienation.

[PanH]

My armchair can cut a katana.

[Starver]

With the thread already three pages long (actually, now five, while I repeatedly tried to preview this message and getting server errors, then copying the text and starting again), I'm inserting by twopennorth after only reading the first page, to make sure I'm PTW.

I've not had any personal experience with plate armour, but I've made (and worn, obviously) my own chainmaille, as I'm sure I've previously mentioned on these 'ere forum-type-things.  Slightly anachronistic (but not silver-painted plastic rings[1]) and not professionally finished (closed rings having their ends 'riveted' together... I just relied on the material strength to keep them bent into shape).

The stuff worn by shark-divers (and similar stuff worn as gloves by butchers and the like) is finer and probably uses a more suitable alloy finished in a more suitable manner.  (Wouldn't be surprised if it weren't 8-1 or even 10-1 linkage, rather than the pretty open 4-1 or (as far as I've generally gone, except for jewellery-type pieces) 6-1 packing.)  I don't know how well an anti-shark suit would do, if wormholed back into days of yore, but I reckon it'd at least out-perform on a weight-by-weight basis, despite the added density of linking that I presume it has.

In preparing for a time-slip, assuming that our Kentucky Yankee knew in advance that he/she was going to end up in King Arthur's Court, then I don't suppose that a standard set of police riot-gear would go amiss at all.  I'm not sure if ballistic armour would be a good investment (I don't know how it stands up to rains of arrows, bodkin-heads, etc), but the anti-stab vests (and more, ideally) might be useful, and the plexiglass/whatever shield would be among the an unexpected items (the transparent visor also, even if the rest of the helmet doesn't look too amiss, or can be surmounted by superficial decorations to fit into the period) that could either help save day or I suppose, mark our displaced person down as a target to be bested...


However, the one thing I'd wish to make sure I had (especially if I was in danger of facing archers, and regardless of the rest of the protection I'd end up in) is silk under-armour.  Or, in lieu of armour, padded silk jacketing for as much as my body as possible.  This is mainly to help prevent the arrows that I surely wll be hit by (assuming I don't just lie low and/or successfully pretend to be Merlin with all my 'magic knowledge' somehow used with the materials I'll have at hand) from making more of a mess on entry than they might otherwise do, and allow easier extraction if they do penetrate (and I survive that injury and the warclubs/etc that come along while I'm writhing on the ground in agony).


Knowledge would probably the best armour though.  Firstly enough backwoodsmanship to compete with the local time's backwoodsmen (which'd be a hard ask), assuming I didn't instead try to get myself well acquainted with the established protocols and structure of the nobility so that I could cadge room and board off of them.  After that, From-the-ground-up stuff like blacksmithery, pottery or another useful trade that involved furnaces and could lead to a few steps along the way to my own little Industrial Revolution. Although it's by far too late to compete directly with the 'locals' who had been smithing all the way from apprentices up to being the quality workmen that ultimately must dot the land...  My one exceptional attribute may yet be my age and health (assuming that I don't just look younger than my <cough>ty-<cough> years, to the weather-beaten and healthcare-less inhabitants of the time).  And my unexceptional height may (literally) help me stand out from the crowd, for better or ill.  (Another reason why I might be able to 'pass' as a noble, and require me to know how to act like one and blend in whilst avoiding the jousts and other combat games that I'm ill-prepared for.)


If nobody's mentioned arms yet...  Not sure.  Guns (not something I'm overly familiar with, in daily use) would run out of ammo, tasers would run out of power (also doubt they'd work against a metal-clad warrior).  I was coincidentally thinking the other day, however, that my pretty boring bread knife might be an exceptional piece of bladecraft in times past.  (Probably ineffective against armour without the skill to dodge in and get just the right angle to penetrate some chink in the armour (and the armour that protects those chinks...  And a good chance that it'll get snapped at some point, so less useful than a native rondell dagger, methinks, but perhaps would work as a misericorde to give the mercy blow to someone I'd somehow defeated by other means.)


[1] Although I did make some test pieces out of green-plastic coated garden-wire.  A bit lighter than the volume of each ring would suggest, non-rattling, or at least not with a metallic rattling, and non-reflective, so might have been considered useful for a "Night-assault Knight"...

[Trollheiming]

You're talking about Agincourt, and nobody's quite sure how that went down.  One story is that the arrows themselves killed the dudes, others say that bodkin arrows couldn't penetrate steel plate armor.  But no, either way it isn't proof that plate armor was impossible to maneuver in.  Agincourt was fought on a very muddy field after a big rain, which is not the same as a fight on firm ground.  Horses got mired, dudes got mired, while people in light or no armor could maneuver more easily.  It's an outlier, is what I'm saying, not something you should base a conclusion about plate armor on.

Heard this a lot. And then Crecy becomes an outlier, and then Poitiers becomes an outlier... And then English enthusiasm for the longbow as an inefficient weapon becomes an outlier. Historical revisionism, at its finest. The longbow was a powerful weapon that influenced several huge important battles in the Hundred Years Wars... and muddy terrain as an excuse won't get you far past Agincourt.

[Another]

Katana vs Zweihänder? Assuming both wielders are professional duellists. (two-hand styles/techniques)
Katana vs Rapier? Same historical period and similar "noble" purpose. (one-hand stiles/techniques)

Any decent sword can cut low grade iron. The question is will it cut through, past padding and deal some damage? If plate armor is cut open but partially deflected the blow (and a trained armor wearer will make it very difficult for his opponent to execute perfect strike with full force) - it served its purpose. European arming sword was adapted to the fact that enemies frequently had iron armor and stabbing through it is easier than cutting.

E:"28 new replies". Sometimes I am slow to post.

[kerlc]

Anti-stab vests would be almost ideal for time-travellers, if it weren't for the fact that they only cover one's torso. But yeah, Police Riot Gear today would've made for a nigh miracle armour back then.

Hmmm... This sounds like a good plot for a schlock movie... A Police Officer who is for some reason clad in full riot gear is mysteriously transported back into the past...

Katana vs Zweihänder? Assuming both wielders are professional duellists. (two-hand styles/techniques)

Different weapon types. The Zweihänder is a heavy sword that requires both arms to successfully operate, and is slow when compared to the nimble one-handed katana.. I believe Zweihänder VS. Nodachi would be more appropriate.

[Trollheiming]

Katana vs Zweihänder? Assuming both wielders are professional duellists. (two-hand styles/techniques)
Katana vs Rapier? Same historical period and similar "noble" purpose. (one-hand stiles/techniques)

Any decent sword can cut low grade iron. The question is will it cut through, past padding and deal some damage? If plate armor is cut open but partially deflected the blow (and a trained armor wearer will make it very difficult for his opponent to execute perfect strike with full force) - it served its purpose. European arming sword was adapted to the fact that enemies frequently had iron armor and stabbing through it is easier than cutting.

E:"28 new replies". Sometimes I am slow to post.

My dual-wield katanas can pretty much own anyone.

Speaking of battles, it's not braveheart. The melee gets pretty tight without discipline. There's a youtube vid of opposing russian football gangs with about a hundred supporters each going at each other. That is a real battle. Not this fake shit where people are spread out to look pretty for the cameras.

Footwork goes by the wayside in real battles, and big scary weapons lose much of the weight behind their cuts and thrusts. That's why the roman short sword, the gladius, was so effective in pitched battles.

[Cthulhu]

Katana fans remember:  Bushido was called "the way of the horse and bow," not "the way of the katana and anime"

[Darvi]

Also, katanas were anything but nimble. There is a reason why they're called Masterwork Bastard Swords (and only MW because any katana that isn't MW is only a glorified beating stick).