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[simonthedwarf]

After I came out of the navy as a 22-year old, I steadily put on weight (probably 5 kilos a year) until last year I weighed around 106 kilos as a 26 year old. It was easy for me to ignore since I am a tall person (188 cm in height) but I any confidence I had in my fitness was long gone by the last year. I remember taking a body composition test and finding out I was 25% fat back then.

From that point until today I have managed to lose 25 kilos. Mainly through harsh calorie deficit regimes. I dont feel overweight at all when I look myself in the mirror now, in fact I am pretty sure I am normal at 80 kilos. My big conundrum now is what sort of path I want to take now. Should I try to put on some muscle or just stay thin? Both venues are reasonably healthy but I certainly wouldn't mind having more muscles as long they are visible and not hidden behind layers of fat like 1 year ago or like most dwarves in DF have.

I'm going to take a new body composition test this thursday. While this calculation may seem silly, I belive my self to be around 18% body fat now. I just multiplied my previous fat percent at 106 kilo with my current weight, assuming a balanced loss of tissue (which means losing muscle as well).

I HOPE I will be lower. I dont see how fat serves much function once it's stored in your body other than making you...fat.

What I'd like to ask my fellow DF'ers is how you feel about being a a thin or a strong person. Everyone has his or her's ideals but what makes it ideal to you or why would you change. I'll kick it off by saying that when it comes to being really fabulous in clothes, thin usually beats musular to me. I just prefer the model type of look both on men and women.  On the other hand muscular is the king on the beach and I will say that I experience back pains when I do a lot of "office" type of work over a computer, so having strong muscles in my back and stomach will probably alleviate this a lot.

[nenjin]

Just remember that "going for muscle" is a commitment that you have to sustain. It's a lifestyle. If you work out to get muscle-y, then stop, you'll put on weight and lose the trim look. It's really about how much time you want to invest in looking good. In order to maintain six-pack abs, I think you need to do at least 100 crunches/situps a week. Probably more actually. I recall hearing actors have to get in 300 a week for perfect abs. That's a serious time investment.

I prefer being thin over being ripped, both because it's easier to maintain and I think it looks more attractive (especially for people with thin builds.)

[Knight of Fools]

You could always go for endurance rather than mass. High reps, low weight, and lots of cardio. You'll get toned rather than bulky.

[Aerie]

As long as you're not obese (i.e. your weight is causing medical problems), having body fat isn't that big of an issue.

[simonthedwarf]

Visibility of stomach muscles has almost nothing to do with situps, just fat %

[Aerie]

Visibility of stomach muscles has almost nothing to do with situps, just fat %

The shape and tone do, though.

[andrea]

and if you lack shape and tone, the fat % required to make them visible may not quite be healthy.

by the way, I second the opinion of knight of fools, suggesting some endurance exercise.

[nenjin]

Visibility of stomach muscles has almost nothing to do with situps, just fat %

If you don't have defined abdominal muscles to begin with, then you just look anorexic when you've lost enough weight to expose them.

[Leatra]

Just remember that "going for muscle" is a commitment that you have to sustain. It's a lifestyle. If you work out to get muscle-y, then stop, you'll put on weight and lose the trim look. It's really about how much time you want to invest in looking good. In order to maintain six-pack abs, I think you need to do at least 100 crunches/situps a week. Probably more actually. I recall hearing actors have to get in 300 a week for perfect abs. That's a serious time investment.

That's the only reason why I'm reluctant to go for muscle. I concentrate more on being fit.

And I'm lazy.

Anyway, I think something between muscular and thin goes well. That's what I would call "fit" I guess.

[simonthedwarf]

I honestly appreciate this thread getting a bit sidetracked. All good one's here did.

Visibility of stomach muscles has almost nothing to do with situps, just fat %

If you don't have defined abdominal muscles to begin with, then you just look anorexic when you've lost enough weight to expose them.

Your ab "tone" means nothing if they are not visible. As for the shape of your abs.. what on earth could you be referring to?

Terms like anorexic abs sound like a measure of personal taste. I've had periods of sexual preference of larger and rounder women but I wouldn't put labels on them to belittle how they look. Low fat percentages are considered attractive now, there's no hiding it. Whether or not you prefer muscles on top or not is about personal taste.

[DJ]

I don't know what's your frame like, but 80kg seems a tad underweight for a 188cm tall male. I'd put on 3-4kg of additional muscle if I were you. Not for the sake of appearance, but for your spine. If you don't have enough muscle you'll slouch and get chronic back pain.

[simonthedwarf]

Back pain I already have on office heavy days, so this is something I'm working with atm. I am currently leaning very heavily towards going for muscle now, lets say, try to put on muscle to 85.  I'm focusing and big strongman type of excersies in a 5x5 program that I had my first day of previous wednesday. I have to say though I am obsessing about calory intake now and I feel this could hamper my muscle gain progress cause I am very worried about putting on fat that I fought so hard to lose.

as for my frame this is what I look like right now:

[nenjin]

Your ab "tone" means nothing if they are not visible. As for the shape of your abs.. what on earth could you be referring to?

Not exactly true. I was at about 150 pnds and was working on six pack. Had some nice abs going. Then I quit working out. The muscle stayed, but fat got added on top of it. Now I look like I have a slight belly, even though it's still mostly muscle underneath. Tone matters, even if you're not sitting at 3% body fat.

Terms like anorexic abs sound like a measure of personal taste. I've had periods of sexual preference of larger and rounder women but I wouldn't put labels on them to belittle how they look. Low fat percentages are considered attractive now, there's no hiding it. Whether or not you prefer muscles on top or not is about personal taste.

I don't disagree there's a large amount of personal taste involved. That said, there is such a thing as being so thin it's unhealthy. I've dated enough small, skinny women to know that.

Based on your picture, if you dropped more weight and more body fat, that would look kind of unhealthy to me if you didn't do any toning on top of it. For example, I can see the cut of your hip there, which is usually a good indicator to me of physical health and a decent body proportion. If you lose even more without adding any additional muscle...you'd start to see the blade of your hip bone. And that's the point at which, personally, I'd think you'd need more body fat or actual muscle.

[DJ]

Looking at that picture, I'd say you definitely need to put on some more muscle. Your frame seem fairly light, though, so staying at the same weight would be fine. There isn't that much of a need for fat to muscle conversion, it's just tightening the muscles you've got to hold you up a bit straighter (your belly is kinda sticking out there due to weak abdominal muscles). So yeah, I'd go for building some wiry muscles rather than bulking up, ie low weight high reps exercise. And you'll want to retain at least half of the fat you have now, because it's kinda gross when people can see every fibre on the surface of your muscles.

[Eidolon]

Frankly, i disagree that you should train for endurance. Train for strength. Lift heavy sets of 4-6 reps with the big compound lifts with freeweights, like back squat, bench press, deadlift, and overhead press. Join a gym if you need access to a barbell, or consider building a power rack for home if you have the room and money.
Here's why I think this is a good idea:
1. You will get much stronger. You will be able to see the progress on your lifts, and that is very important for motivation.
2. The muscle adaptation from strength training is useful if you ever decide to switch training types. For example, if you decide to start doing isolation-type exercises in the hypertrophy rep range (training for mass/size, 8-12 reps per set generally), the increased muscle fibre activation from strength training will help you progress more efficiently.
3. The muscle adaptation from strength training is useful day-to-day. An awkward 80lb box is much more manageable when you have a 300lb + deadlift (and the accompanying grip strength). A heavy pack is not so heavy when you can squat 225lbs easily. (These are light weights for an experienced lifter)
4. You will look better. Your core will become tighter, your chest will become defined, and you will look athletic. You won't look like a bodybuilder, but you'll look good. Frankly, you'll look better than you would if you did endurance training, and you'll actually be able to lift some heavy ass weights too, which is cool (in my opinion).

Look up the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. It's got a good routine for a beginner, and it contains a lot of knowledge on the anatomy and form of the lifts you need to know. Learn all the lifts in that program, and tack on three sets of pullups and dips (to failure) after each training session.

All of this is just my advice. Do your own research and make your own mind up, but PLEASE don't avoid strength training just because the lifts are scary and you have to learn difficult things. You won't regret it.